EP086 - Dorel Juvenile Group Bob Land and Jamie Dooley
An interview with Bob Land is the VP Consumer Engagement and Jamie Dooley is the Head of E-Commerce at Dorel Juvenile Group. Dorel Juvenile is the world’s leading juvenile product company and has over 11k employees globally. They have a portfolio of 11 brands include Cosco and Safety 1st.
In this interview, we discuss Dorel's to to market strategy, including:
In particular Dorel is a hybrid seller (1p and 3p) on both Walmart and Amazon's marketplaces.
Jamie will be one of the speakers at "Amazon & Me" an all day workshop on Tuesday June 6th at IRCE, hosted by Scot Wingo.
Don't forget to like our facebook page, and if you enjoyed this episode please write us a review on itunes.
Episode 86 of the Jason & Scot show was recorded on Wednesday May 24, 2017.
Join your hosts Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg, SVP Commerce & Content at Razorfish, and Scot Wingo, Founder and Executive Chairman of Channel Advisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing.
New beta feature - Amazon Automated Transcription of the show:
Jason: [0:25] Welcome to the Jason and Scott show this episode is being recorded live on Wednesday May 24th 2017 I'm your host Jason retailgeek Goldberg and as usual I'm here with your co-host Scot Wingo.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [0:40] Hey Jason and welcome back Jason Scott show listeners you know Jason some of the feedback we get says that some of our jokes especially yours are juvenile so we have perfect guest for the show tonight.
Jason: [0:52] Internist that that feedback is mostly from my family.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [0:57] Guy cuz they get to live with them all the time so tonight we're really excited to have two members of the door old juvenile group e-commerce team dorel juvenile is the world's leading juvenile Product Company and has over 11,000 employees globally they have a portfolio of 11 Brands including Costco and safety first, we're excited to have on the show Bob land who is the VP of consumer engagement and Jamie Dooley who is the head of eCommerce welcome Bob and Jamie hello. Alright cool so what what part of the world I'm in Raleigh Jason is back home in Sunny Chicago where you guys at.
[1:36] I am in the Backwoods of Southern New Hampshire and put our company is actually headquartered in the u.s. in Foxboro Massachusetts probably about 15 minutes away from the.
[1:51] And I'm in the back words of Boston okay so the first Speaker there was Jamie and II was Bob for those either don't recognize their voices.
Jason: [2:01] We always like to start the show by getting a rundown on your background and how you got to your current rolls and maybe a little bit about what the the scope of your role is now so Bob can we start with you.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [2:14] Sure sure I'm I'm kind of the the old man of eCommerce it seems I started off in eCommerce in 1995. Not sure how often you you hear that but I work a Polaroid and I was a product manager on it, try to call to make a print you know those machines that you going to a CVS or Walgreens and you can't hear photo, we did that 95 and we use the internet to you know send some photos to the Internet so it was. Kind of an early beginning I went to Rensselaer which is a little College in Upstate New York engineering school lunch lids.com and 1999 and if you know those guys. Happy tailor. And then cvs.com for CVS Pharmacy in around 2001 when I got into the affiliate space know if you guys are the affiliate world like I do but I started. And a Commission Junction. And then it starts from 2006 all the way to 2011 where we got bought by rapper 10 which is a pretty large e-commerce player out of Japan. That's why I stayed for a while on their leadership team and then found dorel that's our video ad from our new CEO recruiting people for a digital transformation so I've been there been here ever since.
Jason: [3:44] End and how long is ever since when did you get to dorel.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [3:47] The three and a half years but then e-commerce terms is talking about sweat 7 is that the multiplier.
Jason: [3:54] I think so so you're off probation then.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [3:59] Double secret probation.
Jason: [4:02] Awesome in Jamie what about yourself.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [4:06] Well I'm just tangentially my probation officer I need to call him after this process will that I'm a giraffe.
Jason: [4:14] That was one of the conditions of your parole if I'm not mistaken.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [4:18] And absolutely was so so I went to MIT for graduate school.
Jason: [4:24] That's like a liberal arts college in the in the Northeast.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [4:29] Yes yeah it's a little small school and I actually I was one of the only people in my graduating class but actually went into retail so I would I got recruited out of. Alabama teacher to go work at the Bayern brick-and-mortar for target with snow very traditional Japanese e-commerce go go to MIT and then go into rock music. Has the buyer of rock CDs for for Target. And then what is a brick-and-mortar bar Provo Target in and Staples and then ultimately ended up back here in New England working for Wayfair where I was. The director category management for a number of categories including the baby categories that I was really my first entree into the baby space as well as toys and game rooms. And ultimately went to Dunkin brands or Dunkin Donuts headquarters where I where I live retail merchandising in eCommerce and then more recently was the, director of e-commerce merchandising strategy for Toys R us.com and babiesrus.com. Most recently I've been at the route for about a year-and-a-half now and I'm head of e-commerce where. I actually came to the company name because Bob and the leadership team and painted a really exciting vision for. Transforming what was already a very well-known company in the baby's face into more e-commerce focused and digital organization.
[5:59] Very excited to a part of that change over the last year we made him take the Kool-Aid right off the bat. I was keeping track and I think between the two of you we've got 480 of the IR 500 so congratulations on that careers. Pretty robust set of companies to work for thank you.
[6:23] So what's up let's kind of started a high-level and kind of work our way in peel the onion is at work so, you know you guys were at retailers before and a vendor there and now you're at Brand so tell us a little bit how do you guys think about channels and then just just, macro online offline in and how, no important that is for you guys dabs about you in so that they must be pretty important and then as we know and then within the channels within online I'll pry have a follow-up so just start there.
[6:58] Sure so we saw into a number of different channels and just high-level so you guys are so of the listeners and everyone understand. We were the largest manufacturer in the US of baby products that everything from strollers car seats to infant Health Products like thermometers. Safety monitors and probably the product. People probably with his the Baby on Board sign in a lot of cars that that is so when we when we think about Channel there's obviously we went to the traditional brick-and-mortar retailers. We we silent appear quite online retailers as well. We also have a very strong and growing DTC Channel weather and I can talk a little bit more about you what comprises Rd to see Channel marketplaces. Start with kind of don't think of Market places around my marketplaces as part of Vita C. But if so that's probably another Channel we looking at and then we have we we have done physical stores and pop-up stores so Wickham orders is kind of our own channel. And then we have some B2B channels list.
[8:18] Cool so Mom. What your summary of the scope of of online and is this kind of guys or Ground Zero or is there been some progress.
[8:29] Yeah I think we've had some Dennis progress over the last probably the last year-and-a-half and in terms of not over not only just a digital transformation in the mentality of probably approach, e-commerce but from a sales perspective as well so the industry. Depending on the category were and we Runnin so many different categories and babies.com Rd Commerce penetration ranges anywhere from 10 to 50% off, 30% and we're certainly not work with a lot of our competitors haven't been at babiesrus.com and wait there to know that we're certainly at the high end of. About scale in terms of. Penetration relative to the rest of the industry and we're obviously a really big company were bitching about a billion dollars a year. E-commerce business is certainly one of our fastest growing parts of the business that work cited about that so we feel like. But you were going to really embraced the change and we continue to see things coming out of the hangout e-commerce. It's kind of nice I was allowed to go as broad as we have. In that you know we didn't when I you know only doing gay to see or only the e-commerce group, where in the space we're going to be call a consumer engagement but really it's we have the the brand marketing budget as well. We have call center we have to see via Parker places with several different groups under kind of One Umbrella.
[10:06] So we from our perspective if we you know we feel that we should start selling, Autoflower call center upselling services or things like that we're absolutely he was in our Charter to do something like that so it's it's a nice bit of freedom, inside of a relatively large company do you guys operate at so we had Greg, poster on from VF Corp and they they're kind of like a sinner for e-commerce and then the brands kind of feed off of that in other places other, other kind of houses brands with talk to there's almost like independent groups that kind of run things how are you guys set up at a macro Essence macro level.
[10:49] We're a core team so each one of the brands. So the five really that we operate out of out of Foxboro and. The week of the group the go-to-market team on once the NPD process the new product development process goes to a certain point we do all the launch planning for the company, read we really don't get into Channel management is probably what we draw the line with the sales team but it's really a core group. That that. Works to really extend the the brand marketing so the brand teams really only get to work on product development. And core brand development and then we really do the activation now part of the brand.
Jason: [11:38] Got interesting you know, I'm always fascinated I have some clients that are brands that very robust direct-to-consumer business is and then I also have some some brands that are super early in their DTC journey and those guys are always terrified about the channel conflict issues, I'm sort of assuming by how robust your your channels are that that that if there were any concerns those concerns of sort of played out in the past is that the fair characterization or is that still something you have to Grapple with.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [12:15] I think we still we absolutely grapple with it everyday I wouldn't say. It's it's a huge obstacle for trying to run eCommerce but we're certainly mindful of. Are we evolve our Retail Partners as we're managing to the Sea, and I think we've approached it where we we don't we don't want to actively compete with our major Retail Partners uncertainly in my career taking Amazon honest is never a good idea. Walmart or any of the other. Major retailers video into our goal is to provide regardless of the channel to customer purchased directly. Rr1 PV terrorism cell, on the marketplace is and then our call centers in P2P our goal is ultimately to have all those channels work worth in Harmony and not trying to shoot against each other first.
Jason: [13:17] Ghana and I'm assuming you're sort of Court digital team isn't just a supporting the DTC so you're probably also providing content and assets and stuff for your for your 1p partners for their own e-commerce efforts is that. Is that true.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [13:32] Yeah that's absolutely true I think that's part of how we tried to, just saw the vision to our Retail Partners and throughout the organization is that what we do from a contract perspective or everything that we're doing to enhance the customer experience online is certain Morrison. Healthy overall company attorney just to this point it's taking awhile No 3 or 4 years now. It's like a data Liberation movement had 7 or 8 products, catalogs you can spread all over the world all these different databases and recently called salsify a kind of bring it all together. And really once we took moves like that and really didn't rely on Legacy systems anymore of your completely rebuilt the marketing technology Stacks we we train the prods managers to develop, content in in you know the way that it should be developed for online so it was kind of it's getting to a point where it's a lot easier than it used to be. Wow the barriers have been really knocked down at not to say that we don't find new barriers kind of every week I'll place in front of us but I think the systems that the kind of the level of. Availity. Citizens have a really empowers everybody we would taking a lot of cost out of the business to you nobody not by giving off of these Legacy systems cell. What a nice Pivot Point here.
Jason: [15:05] Yeah I find that.
[15:09] Often is a cost savings for brands that you know in the old world you under nose to you or treating the same content multiple times for multiple touch points and when you're when you get those more robot systems you get better content reuse often.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [15:24] Yeah I agree absolutely we also we're spending money in the wrong places, so you don't know gone are the days we have to do $30,000 photo shoots for a single product launch as far as I'm concerned for dorel anyway. You know we do social, social photoshoot we invite you know parents who live within 30 miles of the office to bring their cute baby in for the day and we shower them with gifts and you get amazing photos out of a session like that, and you're doing consumer engagement so it's kind of my fault now.
Jason: [15:56] Place very interesting we might want makes for that more but I do want to touch on something you you introduced a little earlier so Amazon is one of your Retail Partners you're selling to them 1p you're also selling on marketplaces and I'm presuming one of those marketplaces as is Amazon so you're sort of sailing, food through two methods and we often call that sort of a hybrid model is that do I have that right and if so can you can you talk our listeners through how that's work for you.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [16:31] Sure yeah and that's absolutely right yeah we are hybrid we we've sold by 1p for over a decade. 1 times and then we launched on Amazon Marketplace about a little over a year ago and it just took off and fantastic and. I think we have a really good partnership with our vendor managers on a one piece side and we're we're fortunate enough to have the Rangers for top managers on the marketplace side so I think so. Yeah meet me at some pretty wacky goals to his phone e-commerce perspective. Last year and we beat them pretty and within certainly the marketplaces were a big part of that in addition to the overall eCommerce performance. Water brands I talk to you they get really confused by this that kind of say.
[17:24] Alright so I get the whole sale thing why would you have 3 piano, an answer to this. Like from from your perspective you know what was it that led you to kind of explorer that and and what are some of the levers that gives you to pull in the in the Amazon side effects. I think for us when I got hired I was hired to talidi to see and I don't think we really knew how we wanted. Focus mostly on transfer store on marketplaces physical store.
[17:59] What is strong physical store on sales revenue stream in Europe. So I looked at it from a wax way and I think from from traffic perspective certainly it was it would be easiest to go after online marketplaces that was one of the. The major factors that. I thought about when we were. Trying to decide which do we focus on first focus on all them now but you only have so much resources in the beginning. I love that we have the safety net that you've done your podcast the parking lot about craft items and then we can go. A safety net for when or if Amazon decides to send to crop out items we can put them on the marketplace pretty easily and then. Our products kind of engine in six pockets and I talked about this in the session I do, and I are coming out where we will get it from A New Perspective an existing catalog perception online on one exclusives or what would call Alexander's. Accessories and then exit 17 closed. So it gives us the flexibility to. To go in and decide how we're going to approach each one of those product buckets for each one of our friends in our portfolio and gives us a lot of options for how we want to we want to drive sales for each of those.
[19:31] Graco so in the early days how much skew overlap is there between 1 p and 3p a lot of the folks I've talked to they the first explorer 3p because you know they presented, 10000 skews the Amazon Amazon spot 1000, and if you would initially is a way to get the rest of their product line up there is that the case with you guys it sounds like there's a little overlap there cuz you do that safety-net kind of do listing approach. So there's absolutely no overlap on the Amazon side Amazon actually doesn't allow that so if anyone from Amazon is going to kill the lamp. Butter. What we and other and other Mark of places that does allow us and a little bit of a safety net so if the one piece side goes out of stock already. The house of a three-piece.
Jason: [20:27] In just a clarifying question on the overlap.
[20:33] So does that include out of stocks so if if Amazon carries ask you and they go out of stock can you sell it as 3p until they come until they make another by or or do you just stay away from those cubes entirely.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [20:48] Why I think this. If you're if you're sticking to the letter of Amazon's policy is that if Amazon carries an item or merchandise is an item on the one piece I'd you can't set that I'm up, on the three people and their algorithms actually flag, you and tell you that you don't know what to do that if it if it's a text if you have an overlapping you on the marketplace. There is any one of the other. The oversight that a lot of people have is that it's not just really one p vs 3T there's three different types of freaky and three different types of One Piece One of the types of one piece is from where. You're you're not the seller record it's not a Marketplace relationship with one. Amazon is still the seller record but it's very much like what you talked about Jason if Amazon goes out of stock it automatically defaults to a Dropship order within our warehouse. That's almost like a Marketplace you can take advantage of his laundry feeding the SI weight.
Jason: [21:55] Got to and have you experimented with any vendor the field FBA stuff in your portfolio.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [22:03] Yes absolutely we actively use a PA now and we continue to work out any but the cost of shipping is one of our biggest challenges and seven e-commerce. E-commerce player and certainly you as a friend so FDA is certainly getting more expensive so we need to make sure we're watching that obviously is a very. Very powerful traffic drivers.
Jason: [22:33] Yep.
[22:34] And then on the one being three-peat one of the the complaints I often hear or one of the obstacles to being a hybrid seller is obviously Amazon has tools for One Piece settlers in Vendor Central and they have this Seller Central 4, for three-piece hours do you use those tools and just use them separately, play for both sides of your business or if you look at any of the sort of third-party systems that try to agregate those two tools.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [23:04] Yeah yeah so we are we both we do use both systems vendor Central and Seller Central. Anyone who is both knows that the day that you have available to you on that much more robust. Been trying to figure out how to drive more cell weather looking stop at the conversion or just all the metrics the jobs available. And was your business even on the one piece side even if you have one with the skull premium Ara. You don't have access to that kind of data so to answer your question yeah we looked at a number of third-party Data Solutions, some of them I think some of your other around previous speakers on the podcast like Lisa or Andrea, or one foot retail or friend you those are the solutions we've looked at more about the more we're about to sign a contract actually this week with one of them as you mentioned between, what size of the business in concert, cool um I know you guys are real active on Amazon advertising and we've touched on that with some pass gas but would love to hear how you guys think about it and maybe just for listeners you could recap, the I think people get kind of I know I do get confused there's all these kind of alphabet soup that gets thrown around and since your hybrid you have every, every tool available to you so maybe give a quick rundown of the tools available that's one p and 3p and then which ones you use and then would love to hear.
[24:40] Any thoughts on the efficacy of those programs.
[24:45] Sure so at a very high level I'm just so many different programs that Amazon has but I mean I think the paper forms from.
[24:55] Formed if you were wild about nine months ago. There was just a much more defined difference between what you have available is a one piece and what you have available to speak also AMS has three different types of. Advertising on there is lots of products there's others headlines and then there is, but you only as a 3p so are you only had access to sponsor products on the MSI where is One Piece a drive axle. So from that perspective on the one beside you I talked about this even a couple of months ago and today is a one-piece so are you have just much more. Options available to you from a marketing perspective advertising perspective available. What we're hearing is that all three types of of a nice advertising are going to be available, Sellers as well so I think you're starting to see Last of Us and certainly is not about your podcast Amazon is going after the digital advertising. I wouldn't be surprised to see all options offered to post 137. On the AMG side. It's more of a branding experience if I necessarily something that's going to be easy you usually try to sell so we can use both but though.
[26:32] We found that at least in the past AMG is is not have the tire off an artist is a mess with.
[26:42] Contra listeners OMG is, more like banners and it kind of brand oriented advertising so CPM style advertising in AMS is more search CPC type advertising and there's there's several flavors of it with an Amazon of where things show up but that's kind of the the broad distinction there. Right and I am hearing about a lot of different beta program that there's the testing on the AMD side 30 when I getting much better be targeted. Open up advertising office again so. I think it'll be interesting to see what I am to get better I would have said, did this kind of a question and what's what's take this out of dorel just for a second cuz you guys are, you have been around that at retailers and all so do you guys think there's risk to some of the other AD companies out there you know so pretend you or at Toys R Us made as bags ample and you know I'm sure they have a huge, Google about didn't you know, seems like Amazon lose a lot more your there's the stat that always comes out that 55% of products are just started Amazon think that's a bloomreach stat but then there's also a Forester head supporting data on that up till about 2 years ago so, you know it it's kind of interesting to think you could this really be a challenge to, Google and and we're seeing broadly people really, they experimented year ago and now they're shifting budget directly out of Google Wallet over towards that side how do you guys think that's that's.
[28:20] Something that could happen I do yeah I have p.m.
[28:28] I'll defer to Bob with a bob has a much deeper background and digital advertising sign on them yeah I think you know.
[28:39] Even just thinking about Darrell and what we've done we've really it's almost like you're shutting down our brand advertising. You know I'm pushing the money really over into Amazon just because it's almost becoming. Some of the weirdest as well. So if I say it well I'm going to do this launch a new product all that effort goes into launching that new product on Amazon with AMS. And if I'm looking sumur all the time I don't know how much they're still going, to know bloggers who have been paid to do a review on a product I think it's almost like letting the people vote so if I want a product I'm going to go to Amazon going to trust that whatever I type in, it's going to be if it's a bestseller with great reviews, how much more convincing do I need to buy that product so even some of the more considered buys I think if there's going to be a shift if it's already not know happening now.
[29:44] Yeah what do you think about so I've also heard from Brands and about this common affiliate thing so what they're saying is you know, I advertise on Amazon and I thought I would get lift on Amazon and I can measure that but I'm also single lift off Amazon yeah what's your reaction to that. Oh yeah absolutely it's relatively well known about the kind of $1 for. I'll spend on Amazon equal $7 outside it varies by category so you know when baby like our products receive more like an $8 left and I was out of Amazon that's the tricky part is is. It's not that straightforward to measure you know it we're not seeing exactly those numbers so I think it takes it takes time.
Jason: [30:32] Very cool so does it feel to you like that's a trend that's unique to Amazon in North America and they're just becoming a great ad platform or is it a shift to reach Arizona like we are you guys also investing in like, Walmart's equivalent which would be w/imax or or any of those sorts of things.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [30:53] That's a good question Walmart. Even even for a mess we don't use the reporting that I am s at all really we really kind of built our own reports and will do the same with W Max. And really have concentrated a lot of the other dollars right there because with guys like Triad and hooklogic can come your other choices on the on the other retailers website they've always. Kind of obscured the Bry. To some degree so it's been it's been tough I'm hoping that those systems evolve a little bit more in their little bit less opaque I think they're going to have to to stay competitive.
Jason: [31:46] Dangerous a wino there's a bunch of wmx salespeople listening right now so I'm sure you'll be hearing from them from the.
[31:53] What will will will be that point home that that transparency and access to data is one literally one of the impediment with folks spending money with you.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [32:06] I think you're pointing that out that's one of them I think she was the thing through the the challenges with. Madison mdfl now it's won the data for the day is just not easy to come by and it's not a Preposterous some of the more that was advertising Channel. Second is mobile mobile experience and desktop experience of War. I don't know that anyone including Amazon it's real practical. Mobile experience.
Jason: [32:44] Yeah which is interesting because you would you would certainly think like it is hard to believe there's a technical or skills and pediment keeping someone like Amazon from building.
[32:54] A great advertising platform and great report and a great mobile experiences.
[33:02] Just feels like they haven't got around to it yet but hopefully I don't know if you know this but Jeff is a big listener the show so you know this could be triggering an email as we speak.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [33:12] Does a Jeff email happening right now.
Jason: [33:18] Should be on the advertising are there any other considerations that you guys think about it in terms of maximizing your your results on Amazon, I noticed I and I should have mentioned this up front I've got a 20 month old in the house so I'm the big user of your products.
[33:36] You've dramatically slowed down my midnight snacking because like all the the safety first products in my kitchen make it much harder to get food out in the dark.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [33:46] But thankfully that's pressure machine isn't protected.
Jason: [33:52] Exactly just just a product idea for you is some LED lighting and some of that stuff might be helpful.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [33:58] Will cost us a penny more to make them glow in the dark.
Jason: [34:02] Exactly.
[34:04] But I have noticed you guys are well represented in all the different Amazon programs and so you know you have a lot of add-on products I also noticed you guys have some Amazon Choice status, product so you know I guess I'd be, pictures do you overly like try to achieve those things with how are you managing your portfolio of all those those sorts of things.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [34:29] Where are the where walkie to have it I wouldn't say that we we were able to. Tell you exactly how we go out I mean certainly bourbon is a profitability quotient. Turn on internet with your private label Amazon. All I got for those were going to answer your initial question as we look at managing the business there's just. What I've been talking about the last year-and-a-half if we break eCommerce and Jeff's into seven centers of excellence in, Amazon a particular kind of fall into one of those centers of excellence be we live and breathe it's almost like a religion where. One of them is marketing and another is information technology Partnerships and people. So each one of those are you looking at and we break it down from quarter-to-quarter. From year to year and suddenly we have a now next future plan for all of them. Respective definition. Which one of the bed say from Amazon perspective we talked about the marketing operations is probably just fine.
[36:00] All the all the other ways and everything dipped Amazon train their customers to a second term to find shipping Apartments.
Jason: [36:09] Got it in, what you don't want to do things that we haven't talked about that scares a lot of people per ticket on the one piece side of Amazon his pricing like do you hit is that been an issue for you do you have a strategy or any any pricing tips for, for folks that are going to put their products on Amazon's platform.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [36:32] Bob's Bob's advice to me in the beginning with don't lose money so I try to price my products while products not to lose money before 1.
Jason: [36:45] Can you make it up in volume if you do.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [36:47] Exactly. My kids are starting to do the new math so maybe you can but I'm old school so I don't know how to turn it negative.
[37:03] We know one of the things we talked about a lot and you mentioned it earlier when you talked about third-party data switch. Is the we say the date is more important and we're crossing with your friends as much data systemically to make the decision we have map policies for a number of our friends that certainly helps. I mean it's the Wild Wild West when you don't have enough policies so the constant challenge to take a look at and what's going on dynamically in the forecast. Pricing stand for in where would possibly looking at ways to differentiate. I think we're going to see a boom in brands that traditionally may have not looked at map policies. Just because of what you know Walmart continues to be priced leader you know Amazon will continue to follow but now you got Target saying they want to be a price leader to and in others. So in that kind of environment as a manufacturer brand gear you know it's like maybe I would have traditionally had a map policy on my premium products only but that's going to change use my. Roll out of my policy for my mqp in Opp lines as well just took for protection.
Jason: [38:23] Wow yeah that is interesting I could totally see that there are a bunch of other 3p sellers that sell your products on Amazon I'm assuming most of those are authorized sellers is that.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [38:38] I would say it's a mix so. That's not the challenge is simply word been a lot of great partners that you sell in the marketplace and then there are some that. Yeah we're not exactly sure how they so I think we're starting to see and evolution are not just Amazon Marketplace but, I'm Walmart's and others where it's harder to be that Arbitrage type of cell are in I think we're hoping that'll help with, look at Channel management we're constantly looking at how to make sure that we have a clean Channel well only authorized stores and food in.
Jason: [39:19] Yep you having to invest some significant resources in that.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [39:25] Yeah I think we are, we have already and I think we always keep trying to go for the very top.
[39:36] It's much as we'd like to spend as much as we could on each of those centers of excellence and one of them is more Channel Management telephone number.
Jason: [39:49] Not totally get it so another topic that comes up. Is the you know those rare occasions win you you fall out of compliance with Amazon and one way or another and the obviously the big Spector looming over everyone's head is suspensions is that. Is that coming to play for you guys at all like are there any common mistakes or tips you give to folks to avoid getting in the Amazon Penalty Box.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [40:18] Yeah I think for us we had the fear of god guitar organization did not want to. Ever end up getting suspended and no fortune. We've had just an amazing operation to approach every yes I weigh very aggressively so the shipping. 99.7%.
[40:42] I need this more than just on time shipping at that way but others is a number of them that we've been fortunate to have a great class functional approach with my advice would be certainly have. A good set of. Watch all team members who are Partners in the business to understand what you're trying to do set the vision and then and check in on a very regularly. We were trying to brick-and-mortar First organization so that was a lot of the time we spent at least in the first 69 wants was just educating. A lot of people within the organization of Argo how we Commerce works and specifically how Amazon work. And I think the more communication we were able to have and then. Huge amounts of visibility to every part of the company Bob's a big believer in that class is really Champion Joe having everything. Are white dashboard in every department so they can so that we can really track you know are we are we tracking to be with shipping so how are we doing this today so I think are the Penalty Box as Bend. Great team effort and I think it starts with setting the vision for everything. That's why one of our favorite the software platforms is geckoboard. Which is Wheel of software that does one particular purpose but doesn't really really well and I want just allows you to push up.
[42:16] It just allows you to creep dashboards on a monitor so I think what we did or invest heavily in the operations and consumer support. Those are two big pillars for us so even if the point where we had to sacrifice and maybe you know advertising dollars marketing dollars to really get that those two pieces of the business really humming along, and are the call center just wanted you know national award for for excellence which is really really cool in it but we had to ramp up. You know social support Amazon answers answer programs on other retailers it's really we had to, where do expand the team and be in more touch points with consumers so we think that's really going to pay off long-term.
[43:08] And just one last point about suspension beyond the SOS from operational perspective there are dozens of ways you can get yourself suspended in the cellar whether it be, Aaron products at all the wild with 1p or any reviews or seller ratings or selling counterfeit products oh, I think what we had was a couple of subject matter experts. Or through all the different essays and rules and everything that Amazon foot. On on the portal to allow showers to know how to optimize a business intro we communicated that very clear with ravioli, cool so that that's been super helpful to hear, some some real world stories from you guys about how you manage Amazon and let's put a little bit and talk a little bit about Walmart so imagine you guys have a long history of selling wholesale to Walmart are you participating in the marketplace and and, I guess I would make you one of the very rare hybrid Amazon and Walmart so so curious what your doing on Walmart.
[44:16] Yeah we are we are hybrid for Walmart as well we launched, probably the best possible time to launch on Walmart marketplace was in November 4th. Trey doesn't want to watch anything. But it's as if they really had fantastic resolved even before last year so really out of the cave you were very fortunate to see. Well and I think I would a little bit last year e-commerce as a team we exceeded our sales goal. But your dog and 16 by 70% and certainly Walmart marketplace was with a big part of getting us a star sailboat certainly crushing that pool. Cook any other channels marketplaces or you know anything you think that's kind of interesting that you think other brands would find kind of fascinating.
[45:17] I will wear on eBay as well and we're on chat we watched on chat about a month before they got bought out so he might feel like this that had something to do. I think we're always looking at different opportunities to find what are products in front of many customers are too small. Yeah for eBay some people kind of view it as an outlet kind of a thing or other people just kind of put their main line on there and do you guys have a kind of certain part of your hot how eBay fits into the strategy.
[45:53] I wouldn't say it if it will you we've completely solidified or crystallized on her arm how how how we approach eBay. I think we do have a healthy mix of a farm products as well as what we call Mike SSM ignoring clothes on eBay. Again you brought it up about Channel. Certainly there's some good extermination candy Bays doing a lot to try and improve the merchandising especially the baby category so we're we are happy to part with them and help help. Apart of that the improvement in our categories. Yeah found eBay is very good brand religion so they're there being a lot more friendly DeBrands lately and I think a lot of that has to do with how Who Came From Home Depot he can understand that Dynamic better than them folks hit that maybe didn't have that experience.
[46:53] Yeah I'm a big fan of how a lot and having watched him what he did at Home Depot was when she was really impressive so I'm hoping they can do the same. What we don't want to do is just go on to any Marketplace for the sake of being there so I say that we have a crystallized our strategy but we do think very closely about know what Ridge Marketplace. What is Protonix Place Mall. It's easy to launch a new Marketplace you know as we see fit. Know if we want to try something else we can easily be up and you know I matter with no days or weeks so that it's not really a huge investment if we want to play with something which interesting is watching at Walmart marketplace evolve. Just month after Mom very interesting focused as a company and we're going to benefit from it and other reports and dashboards going to get better, it's it's an interesting year to be on Walmart marketplace that's for sure. Yes seems to be a big big area and Lori's in there swinging the bat like crazy so we'll see what kind of comes up, requires and he's an amazing guy I mean we were we were riveted. So while he certainly has a captive audience so we're definitely big fans.
[48:24] So yeah funny funny story between Mark and me I interviewed with Mark at Quincy. Where do a month before they close the deal with Amazon and then we visited with Market Chad about a month before Walmart plaza Sol. I feel like I got to start taking more meetings your guy you should get out of stock options I don't know if that's, that may violate some ethics thing but that's not my problem that's your problem, what questions do you guys are in a lot of places in earlier you mentioned you have kind of six categories of products is there I know some some, brands have kind of a good they look at these channels and there's some mapping that happens where they'll say alright, Channel B I'm going to put this type of product there but not this type of product and you guys have any how do you think about that, but everything everywhere that's another valid strategy as well no I think we definitely. Where were careful when in will have a specific kind of game plan for. Access Imaging Closeouts versus completely different strategy for how we're going to approach this. Anything for my Walmart exclusive so yeah it's none of that spray and pray kind of approaches to the TV.
Jason: [49:54] Got it you guys are.
[49:57] I'm going to characterize you as very digitally mature for a branded manufacturer in the in the digital Spectrum in interesting Lee a lot of clients that are, very large wholesale businesses that are really just getting started on the digital side of the fence and you don't.
[50:17] One of the big challenges you always run into is.
[50:21] Getting an organization to change its all this institutional inertia and all these antibodies that are in the organization that fight all of these kind of new initiatives, it sounds like you got to go through that in your you're beginning and Darrell like do you have any advice for for folks that are just getting started on their Journey.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [50:45] Go ahead because I've never heard that before. I'll say that one of the reasons I came to dorel was because. And our CEO told me on a vision where they already started down that kind of mentality show. And made the investments in just a lot of the out-of-the-box thinking in terms of Technology Investments. And resources were a lot different than most of the other cpg companies and other vendor partners that I work with another retailers. Even being your 2016 at the bottom bathing how many still just trying to figure out e-commerce oh. I arrived having seen a vision that was already somewhat said I was just sort of evangelizing that Vision but I think that's the big that was the really important part of our successes. Evangelizing that Vision in getting people excited and I think in many cases this kind of Captain Obvious with a lot of people. It's almost a threat to their job so number one you have people who will get and say am I going to be out of a job in six months because of his e-commerce. Or this is 20% extra work for what it was already a very hard job so I think. I've been walkie I think we had a cross-functional team for 100 people that really jumped on board but I think we also had a really strong Vision that was able to get people energized with from the top down.
[52:24] Bob Probert already established. It was a very difficult have a full head of hair too but now not so much but I think you know what we're trying to do is digital transformation from the inside, which, what is the most difficult in my opinion and in my experience and I don't recommend it it's it's just it's the long path but because you do have to you know evangelize quite a bit and you know I understand it's going to slow you down a little bit, what are the things that I'm trying to do is build a startup type of culture we're just the sense of time is is very different. So you know instead of people communicating in the email they're there now communicating and giora. Is it just a complete shift and in first I would say just get the the early adopters like you need a ring of people that get it, are we have a dining kaybern on our team that is a web Technologies guy that we just we know that we can throw anything at this guy and he's just amazing. And he can quickly integrated system or develop a database or so I think having kind of a crappy team to start with. Yeah the Band of Brothers kind of thing helps a lot but then you have to just keep converting the people who want to be converted and then kind of work your way down the curve to the people who you know they're going to be really resistant. Where I'd say we're Midway down that Journey right now.
Jason: [53:54] Then cool it sounds like I don't to put words in your mouth it sounds like you had a blend of evangelizing some of the Legacy employees that were most susceptible to become part of the digital solution and then you brought in some some outside digital disruptors, is well I eat Jamie does that do I have that right and does that seem like the right approach to.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [54:21] Yeah I do I really think that one of the big mistakes is to go kind of Whole Hog you know out of the gate what one is to do almost nothing and just talk about transformation and that that's just seen companies I've been at companies that are done that.
Jason: [54:36] But just to be clear that's fine as long as you're paying a consultant like sapientrazorfish while you're doing that.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [54:41] Exactly that's exactly what I say but no you know what's funny is it's almost like if I took a step back for a second the the the key. To to Our Success so far has been lots of quick wins and constant wins, so not just sitting this massive gold in a way out there but really understanding let's let's just a few small goal let's let's get all of our product data in one place so we can actually use it okay, let's go with salsify salsify not very expensive so I can put it on a credit card so it kind of scrap a system together, and then build kind of agile process ease around that and then people gravitate toward the money, now you can just follow the money if we're making the you know massive Headway and there's dollars and the dollars keep adding up people tend to say, you know I want that maybe I haven't had that in my team and I want to go on that team I want to be on the successful team so you just kind of read this internal inertia and guys like Jamie it's easy carries that flag, and people just want to follow him.
Jason: [55:56] Very very cool by the way this is going to sound super cheesy I call that stair step approach The Stairway to awesomeness.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [56:04] That's exactly what it is.
Jason: [56:06] Yeah they like you know you you paint that aspirational picture of where you want to get and you just can't do it in one giant big bang project so the stairway to awesomeness is the way to go.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [56:16] And if you give Jason six beers I think is the number somewhere in there 4 to 6 he will sing Stairway to Heaven but it's Stairway to awesomeness and it's it it's a thing to behold another time, yeah yeah yeah no no beer is here on the podcast this is definitely a dry podcast.
Jason: [56:35] Either did I.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [56:39] So we have about five minutes for one last question and I wanted to get super high level you guys have both had great careers and in retail and Brands and digital, where do you see the future of e-commerce is it going to be no Celexa after smartphones or you feel free to kind of go, two years outer are 10 years out so just would love to hear your thoughts seven haven't seen kind of the the play out so far.
[57:10] Bronco versus Bob's is probably better than mine so I don't so I think your two two things I see one or. I would have to it a little bit earlier is that I think so.
[57:24] What what's available for a one piece and what's available for three people I think it's going to start to quote the gas going to start. Obviously the growth Amazon enjoying a large part of that is I think he's going to start more more. More of that consumer experience I've become more consistent on orthopedic in one piece. In particular I think about advertising and one of the gaps that I see that I think expect is probably going to happen and I hit just. You say it with artificial intelligence but I think ribbon Predictive Analytics to help. To help cpg brands in to help anyone who wants to use digital advertising or to use it for, projector for casting I think that needs to happen and I think I just it still seems really Nathan I think I see a lot of solutions out there. Don't take into account all the dozens of of sales drivers and forecast in the theaters that are need to be followers and I think they're supposed to Lucien to still feels on in the brick-and-mortar world. You're not taking into account estimated ship windows or find a drink or the dozens of things that can help to drive, sales on e-commerce side that's just don't doubt it don't get back turd in then I don't think this is any human being to make those decisions.
[58:58] As they're using them to the forecast there the sales or Churchill Drive their advertising can I think it has to be any item, that's a prediction I'd see Captain someone diacetyl.
[59:16] Yeah Predictive Analytics it's definitely going to be pervasive in all everything that we that we do. I worked at a company where we built our own real-time bidding engine and it's it's very complex but as computing power power gets better and this more people working on projects like that, a lot of the manual activity 72 will just gravitate toward that kind of naturally taking over I see a lot of near-term stuff. Nothing that's important where I really think that retailers will start understanding that no Prime is not a shipping program. You don't like I really do think that once other big retailers develop Prime like programs and it you know the full breath and power of a program like that fell under the sun understanding the the game. And I really I don't like I haven't seen. Seems kind of small attempts at a prime like program but nothing nothing even close to it if if it's not a shipping program what is it.
[1:00:24] It's I mean it's like it's a massive loyalty program it's it's the stickiness that the. That you just can't get out of it it has unbelievable unmistakable value. I think they've gone well past the you know the yearly the annual fee for the program in terms of value at this point. I really do think that that is a massive way to build loyalty.
[1:00:54] Go to know you guys are both. Deep in the world of Amazon do you think it's game over or do you think that you know just like we saw in. Bob you're old enough to remember this used to be that you know no one could be the IBM there you would just like it, people just call him up to get mainframes installed and then suddenly Microsoft took over and then it was Google and now it's Amazon you know what do you any votes on like the next Dark Horse you know is it going to be a company we've already heard of it is it some company that's like, two dudes in the garage right now that's a good one Jamie want to go first for that one. So I yeah I mean history tells us no one no company remains thought when I first Are we more than more than 50 years even if it's still around and I think she's somewhere. They're fucking a trance of Walmart's probably one where they're starting to come around they made been made my friend information.
[1:01:55] I think one of the things I think about is on demand that you fart a lot of them. Disruptor obviously Amazon going after 2 but. Medium different different category next Amazon.
Jason: [1:02:20] Oh that's crushing I've spent like 85 episodes trying to to get Scott's ego down and you just told him that he's the future of e-commerce crate.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [1:02:28] You're going to pay me in cash my check, what's what's amazing to me it almost seems like Amazon is is Bucking that the you know the old trend of you know IBM companies like that just kind of, really having to Pivot hard and and swallow hard to and now it major inflection points is the scale that's the thing that gets me, it's no looking at you no announcements from Target sing over going to spend a billion dollars and, supply chain up when Amazon spending well 18 billion, yeah it's just the scale is is something to really think about it how do you how does a disruptor in a two guys in that garage. Really really break into that no no I'm not saying Amazon perfect I've noticed a lotta, a lot of Kinks on a on a daily basis in the armor or chinks in the armor where they're even like my guaranteed shipping package didn't arrive in 2 days. Several times now so you know there's definitely some Growing Pains there. But I got to think it's only another giant it's got to be like a Walmart that really really can can keep up with those guys. I also since I worked at racquet and I would not discount all these guys that are overseas currently that have just been watching the market patiently. Rakuten Alibaba out there they're just massive groups that certainly have the power to and they're not known to be first movers remember.
[1:04:08] They they watch and they're perfectly fine to be the second or third yeah they're the only guys that have kind of beat, Amazon Kenosha Amazon didn't do well in China and continues to be kind of like number three or four there and I don't know about Japan Amazon's done pretty well in Japan but yeah they're they're definitely rocked Anna's is still a major factor there, oh yeah oh absolutely I think probably going to the guarantee for me is the. You can check back thirty years from now I think when Bezos decides to retire a walk away that's definitely rest I mean you work at Target and, dominant really when Bob all that stuff down on that was I was really when started, start to struggle Walmart Walton and I can see the same thing no one ever gave us has to step down no disrespect to the rest of the leadership team but it's a pretty big dr. Phil.
Jason: [1:05:07] I think your point that no no Empire was forever Jeff is made that point and said but what you really want to do is just make sure that your Empire outlives you.
[1:05:19] Repeat the same strategy there because it has happen again we've wasted a perfectly good outside I really want to thank you guys for spending an hour with us and sharing the knowledge.
Scot, Jamie, Bob: [1:05:38] Thank you thank you. Yep Bob and Jamie thanks for joining us and low plug here for Jamie and I Jamie is going to be one of my speakers at the internet retailer Conference & exhibition also known as IRC on June 6th I do a day there that's called Amazon and me where, we go pretty darn deep about these kinds of topics in a, 12 hour Extravaganza so if you're interested in that topic join us then and Jamie will be there, what's the just went through 18 decks on this whole thing so you're talking about hybrid is that right Jamie is that the topic. Yeah I'm talking about how to manage your Amazon strategy whether you're one p3p or Hut. Yep so overall strategy yes and your presentation is awesome so people are going to love it thanks guys and hope to see Jamie I'll see you there and I hope to see some listeners there. Thanks looking for toys.
Jason: [1:06:36] Until next time happy commercing.