Ep 125: Lisa Whiteman on Biomechanics, podiatry, gait analysis and the latest in science

In this interview Lisa Tamati speaks with Lisa Whiteman - Lisa's background is in biological health science, with a specialty in the biomechanics of human motion, and she worked in private practice sports and rehabilitation for over 20yrs. Lisa also is at the cutting edge of research related to human function and performance and is working on a new running tech device call "Run Vibe" which is set to help runners improve their performance through this biofeedback device. Both Lisa's discuss the shortcomings in the health sector, the future of health and fitness, running biomechanics and much more.
Lisa is also an experienced entrepreneur who has grown start-ups, turned around failing businesses,
bought and sold businesses, mentored business owners, employed staff, and worked from the coal face of health care to the boardroom of private-sector education. Developing dynamic leaders through instilling continued learning, self-awareness and self-improvement form a large part of Lisa's current role and she believes strongly in the power of communication, the power of connection; and the power of relationships, in business and in life. Lisa works with organisations and individuals to improve wellbeing and performance by distilling the science and research in ways that are meaningful and achieve positive outcomes.   You can learn more about Lisa's Podiatry Group which has 8 branches throughout NZ at www.respod.co.nz and  follow Lisa's blog at  https://thebeingproject.nz/ where Lisa discusses everything health, wellness, science and whatever is taking her interest at the moment.  

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Transcript of interview

    Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:10)
Well how everybody to tell somebody here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again with me this week. I have another fantastic guest that I've managed to meet this week. I was at a woman's conference in Wellington and I met some fantastic ladies down the, a shout out to everyone who was at the woman's leadership conference. It was an absolute awesome to be down there and to be amongst amazing ladies in one of the ladies that I got talking to afterwards is Lisa Whiteman. So welcome to the show Lisa. Thanks Lisa licensee today. Now Lisa is, I'm not even going to say what she is cause she actually got such a broad, so I'm going to hear to her a broad area of interest. And, and so many projects that she's working on that I thought would be really beneficial for my audience today to hear from these tourniquet who type on us on a few different things. So at least you're in Wellington now by trade or by profession or whatever you wanna call it. You're a podiatrist. You started your journey, but you've also gone into a number of other areas. And Lisa said, can you just give us a brief overview of what the does that you do?

Speaker 3: (01:19)
Sure. it's a really difficult question to answer, Lisa and I always struggle, I need a better elevator pitch around this. So, so my day to day work, my day to day role I look after an umbrella organization to support podiatry business owners, to have both successful businesses but also to drive clinical excellence in shitty expertise. So we at nationwide the group is called resonance. It's reasonably podiatry group and there's a reason why resonance comes up a lot. And and a number of my, my brands, CF, so I manage businesses and I manage clinical outcomes. And that's my day to day. Okay. As a segue from that, I also do quite a bit of work in leadership and development in other sectors. Areas is diverse as the music industry. So I've worked with musician and purposeness. And another business I work with and the Bay of plenty is around positive reinforcement training for horses.

Speaker 3: (02:30)
Well, it's a different way. So this is another, another business and quite a unique and a unique skill set. So I work on businesses, I work in leadership and I have a passion for noticing life and I like to notice with intent. Yeah. I don't want to live life just going through the motions. So noticing has brought me to have a blog and it's called the being project. And my blog there is just a talk about stuff. It is the versus, you know, pressure or stress or pain or relationships or communication. The only areas, I mean, I guess, yeah, it is. It's about, I'm challenging myself to intentfully live my life every single day. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: (03:26)
Yeah, absolutely. And in whatever area you're interested in, that's where you go down the rabbit hole on that area.

Speaker 3: (03:32)
And generally, Lisa, it's the things that pop out of a conversation. So you can guarantee you watch my blog over the next week or two. Yep. Our conversation. Well yeah, because you will spark a need for me to write something

Speaker 2: (03:47)
That's, that's been fantastic. And in laser and I both, we've, we've just been talking before we got on this recording, we're internal students and we're always looking for what is the latest and, and newest in the app with the science. And Lisa has also a biomechanic she's got some other stuff that she's going to add in too. You just got a charity as well. But let's talk a little bit about your bio mechanics side of things because obviously a lot of the people that listen to my show runners so tell us a little bit about, you buy a mechanic background and what you do there.

Speaker 3: (04:20)
So as a, as a podiatrist, obviously we're interested in gate, so can gate running gate. And I found I had a, I've always off physics, so the physics of motion and leavers. And so it was a natural place for me to specialize in, gravitate through my clinical Korea. So rehabbing runners from injury on one side and then more recently looking at how we can improve performance in runners. So esteemed the so that they can achieve the goals that they want without them being broken. Cause you know, the running statistics are huge. We're going to have 80% of our run as in any 12 months I'd go into heaven running injury. Yeah. So how do we navigate through those things? So I spend a lot of talks being too, a lot of time learning both bio mechanics function can emetics kinetics, you know, how we run, how we move and then the science of injury. So but looking at the fact that not only are we addictable from a neurology perspective or neuroplastic, we're also bioplastic out tissues have the ability to read, generate, and to get stronger. It's how we find they, for an athlete, that sweet spot, we are getting stronger, but before they're going to break. Yeah. So I'm fascinated and that area of potential

Speaker 2: (05:46)
It's, and that's for us to, as coaches is a really fine line between over training and your athletes breaking down and optimal performance. Exactly.

Speaker 3: (05:58)
And it's a really, so you've got a can we talk about the, the, the, the tone if you like, of that you were working on the running bribe. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Just this is something that's cutting edge and new people. So it's coming, it's not yet on the market, but this is what's coming. I've been, I've been working for the last five years, becoming up five years on a project review, research and development about looking at whether we can pick out markers in someone's running gait. So specific metrics in the running gate that put together can give us a really accurate indication of the performance. So that's the power that producing and the efficiency at boundary shifts in body forward. So that's what I've been working on. And we've gone through pilots.

Speaker 3: (06:51)
We've done pilot done trials and pilots studies and we have a patient we've done a patient and our next step is to go to commercialization. So it's something the goal was, is a lot of complicated metrics out in the Elisa. And the really had to understand, and I really hot right as it is, is great. It's nice and simple. We can understand that you start adding layers and layers and layers to that. It can be overwhelming for the athlete. So every girl was something really, some people that looked at the ability for you to take your body and efficiently move it forward. Yep. And not so, so we're talking about your gait and your, so your, your Tommy, your feet on the ground, your ground resistance, your cadence, not when, what we're not talking about is those specific pieces of form.

Speaker 3: (07:47)
So what we know is that the metrics that we put weight that we gained from the sensor, we can alter those by things like increasing Hep extinction or increasing the affliction. So what we wanted, and I guess I often call it, we want the best, the most bang for our buck. Meaning we want one number that to alter it or to improve it, he'll base in three simple changes that you'll need to make. So it could be increased cadence. It could be a little bit more high steeper purge. It could be a little bit more hip extinction. It could be a little bit of a tweak to the position of the pelvis. But rather than having to measure those things, measuring the output of those things, one metric which is life a lot easier and simpler. So you know, as running coaches, we're obviously very interested in this because it's very hard to, we have a set of rules that we all take, you know, in regards to bio mechanics, mechanics and what what constitutes and this changes obviously, because don't getting your research

Speaker 2: (08:56)
All the time, as you will know. So we can generally say that, you know high cadence as a, as a beta wide run and we don't want to be planting our legs in the ground. And we want to keep our hips stable and things like this. But this is going beyond that, the mechanics of that and looking at this one metric which will tell you whether you're approving the force forward or not.

Speaker 3: (09:19)
Yup. Exactly that. So rather than the, so for you, you'd probably still do that stuff. Yeah. But you do it exactly that we know these things. We know that cadence is important. We know ground contact time is important. What we want to achieve is that runners out there practicing this new technique that you may have guided them through and they want immediate instant feedback that they are achieving that step-by-step-by-step and that's our goal. We know that gait and this is on the science. We know that gait retraining is definitely doable. Yeah. We know that gate retraining takes a minimum of 12 weeks and then it has to be continuously churned until it becomes muscle memory. So I would team decide to my X lights. It's going to take you a year to be able to confidently say you've altered your gait in a month. That, imagine if you had feedback that you were on task and your training runs, you knew that you could hold it for five K but you can't hold it for team. What do we need to do in the gym to improve your, you capacitate to that, that load. Yeah. He know how you're going. So that's what we're, we're that's what we're working on. That's very exciting. And talking about it. I get re invigorated.

Speaker 2: (10:41)
Yeah. I hate [inaudible] and it's a long process to get something like this to market. So then ultra-marathon in itself. But this is coming in. So people watch out for this in the, in the, in the hopefully near future. What is now you've got podiatrists all through the country in some of those do video gait analysis or do they do all, do live gait analysis in the businesses? Can we, so

Speaker 3: (11:12)
With so with the reason it's group, we have, everyone does video, gait analysis analysis the ones that specialize more in that running a running analysis or it could even be running for other sport. So we see, you know, a lot of the footballers love rugby. Or the netball is, we use three different forms of gait analysis. One we do mobile motion capture, so that's using a mobile, a HD camera and it can be on the field, on the court. So you're looking at, you might be looking at landing skills or you might be looking at type of skills or it may be a particular thing you want to assist, not just running. And then we do dual camera today. Video capture using treadmill. So we've got two cameras, one at the back when it's side. So we're doing that and there's a really good Bella to tape between or correlation between running on the road and running on a treadmill. So the difference in kinematics is very, very minor. We know the science of that, so things that works well and the food that we do, which is unique for new Zealanders. We do three D, I'm both running and walking Gates. So we use a three D capture camera yup. That plots all the points, creates an avatar and looks at what's loading correctly, what's not loading correctly. So that's really unique and we're the only clinics in the country to be using three D motion capture.

Speaker 2: (12:41)
I will be able to [inaudible] we can talk afterwards about hooking us up with it so that we can talk to, I mean we do, we just about to which video analysis, like online, but the analysis, but head's got its limitations. You know, we can look at the big areas of change that we can improve upon, but it's not looking three D it's not, you know, doing the stuff that you were doing. So perhaps we can workout something after this conversation or I at least the ones in New Zealand. Now let's change tech a bit, a little bit. So you've got a, obviously a very big science background and by mechanics you've also got a charity that you're involved in that is, tell us a little bit about that one.

Speaker 3: (13:24)
So today's future is the name of the charity and today's future is an education based charity to support and facilitate a pathway a learning pathway through gifted in neuro diverse young people. So we've particularly focusing on young people between the ages of 14 and 24. And we know that those are critical. If you don't fit, if you don't fit into society or you feel you don't fit into school, which is a big thing. And you might struggle with relationships. This is the time we have, we see a rise in anxiety and depression and really concerning and often these young people, these young adults are functioning, are really high level academically. Yeah. Don't have a peer group to relate to. They often don't relate well to be a thorough in their own peer group. And we find a lot of them will shut down.

Speaker 3: (14:23)
So we lose this potential for the future. And I have a strong belief that it's our kids have now that hold the case to LC mutual survival. So what today's future wants to do is to nurture these kids through into adult hood. So we have openly lifelong learners who have the courage and it's mental fortitude, laser, the stuff you work on day in and day. I mean to fortitude, to be able to face whatever the future is to throw at us in this planet. It's small, it's growing. And we have resource issues like every other small business organization. We just want to try and make a difference.

Speaker 2: (15:09)
Trauma can definitely lead to individual kids' lives. So, you know, so these are some of the gifted kids but who have maybe a certain learning difficulties or difficulties fitting in with the groups in your peer groups than in some sort of social difficulties. So that's a really good thing. So you've got a very, very diverse background and I know we were talking earlier about your life as well and you've got a very diverse background. You've had a brain injury, so we can make that. I have a brain injury and talking about rehabilitation, you know, we obviously I used to hit my story with mum. Do you want to share like your insights on, on your journey with them?

Speaker 3: (15:50)
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm happy to and I'm reasonably new as well in, in, in this journey. So I three years ago I unfortunately fell off my horse, which wasn't ideal and broke my back. So I broke 'em T 12, L one and L two. And I did what's called a retropulsion burst fracture of T 12, which is where the part of the, the fracture ends up in the spinal cavity, in the spinal column. Wow. You don't need the spinal nerves. And it was really unfortunate in amongst all of that, I hit the Dick with my head and it's team relay. People recover really well from a single episode head injury. So I was unconscious for a very short period of time. I was a really low risk patient. The thing that no one asked is, have you had a head injury before? This was my food. He didn't drink. Now you would know from probably your research that that puts me in a completely different camp. I should've been looked after quite differently than I was. So I was sent home from hospital after a week and a spinal brace from my chin to my butt and I was a net for 16 weeks. I didn't have surgery because I chose not to. Yup. And my Beck's pretty damn good. As long as I say strong and my cool Lisa.

Speaker 2: (17:15)
Exactly. Yes. Thanks. So did you hear that everybody, if you've got a bad back, you need to have a strong core that's at the end. Don't necessarily yet jump into the operation side of it so quickly.

Speaker 3: (17:30)
Well, it's interesting because again, coming from, I'm just a little secret here. Coming from the sports medicine, the Australasian sports medicine and science conference, he was significant. Talk about don't operate. Yeah. Avoid and not just a spinal arthritis, knee arthritis foot. The pain that we are experiencing. I have a passion for pain science. The pain that we experience is not due to tissue damage. The pain we experience is due to the perception of our central nervous system around how safe we are or not. So pain is our response to a feeling of not being safe. And it can be heightened by fear. Fear heightens pain. The longer you've had pain, the least it is linked to tissue.

Speaker 2: (18:26)
Wow. So the chronic pain is actually it's a more of a a side. Yup. Yup,

Speaker 3: (18:34)
Yep. It's more, and I'm in around belief systems. So if somebody takes the pain to the body part, like I broke my back, I have back pain. If I believe that I'll continue to have pain. Yup. I understand that actually my back's fine and I'm strong. Then my pain will reduce and I have to tell you this way story. So what they did, and this is on the research, what they did is they used VR. So part of the hip seat on and head. Somebody look at themselves with this really strong back to broad shot, beautifully muscles. So it was their bag that was their body, but it was, it was strong Apple. And they asked them to do stuff and they did what they were asked to do with the strong back. Then they gave them this really weeding Bodie week hunch, looking back in, ask them to repeat the same tasks. They couldn't, they couldn't lift the weight. They didn't have the mobility, they were stiffer. This is how much the mind, the crux of everything we do,

Speaker 2: (19:41)
Of everything we do. And when we, when we diagnose and when we get a label and we have a back injury and we think with powerless to do anything. Have you heard of the work of dr Joe Dispenza? How? Okay, so he's amazing. I mean, he healed his own back through visualization. I'm talking about, I don't know how many weeks was that? 16 weeks or something. And now he teaches about the belief. Have you also heard about Dr. Bruce Lipton? Really everything of his biology of belief. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So I'm all over there and you're by phone and say why I tips. So people basically what, what these two doctors, dr Joe Dispenza, who I highly recommend you go and search out, Dr. Bruce Lipton, who I've mentioned a couple of times on this podcast, and looking at the biology of belief. So what did you believe in? You put in your mind carries through into your body in a fix your actual physical body. And this is why it's so important that we're not telling ourselves we're going to be sick. We are weak. We have this repeatedly and over and over again. Because you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy basically.

Speaker 3: (20:46)
Exactly. And when we're talking

Speaker 2: (20:48)
About that it does, it hit and the mind filters through the body. It changes not just the, that, the structure that we think of like our bones and our muscles. It changes the structure of every single cell. No, it's down to the, it's down to more Kyla. And I think that that's the most mind blowing thing with Joe's work. The whole thing around VI visualization gain and the, this is wonderful. It's coming in through the science. The reels, the idea that's coming into college, they talk about the visualization is priming the brain for success. Yup. It's critical. It's a critical way of reducing the pain. People are in this critical for performance. Totally. I mean, I've, I've preached this for a long time as an athlete preparing for big races. That visualization is one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle. I had a, a guy actually was on my podcast last week, met script and who, who a few weeks before the event had an injury and he was training for a hundred K and it was in a very bad space mentally at any, you know, Sydney walls reached out for help.

Speaker 2: (21:58)
And I didn't spend time working on his injury, his fault. You know, Neil dealt with it for business. We could, but he wasn't going to be able to train much up until we had been. And he was going to have to go in blind and, and the train to say. So we spent the time concentrating on his mentality and the way he approached it and strengthening his mind and the, the just, you know, within 48 hours, the shift that his mindset was huge. And suffice to say he went on and even though he hadn't been able to try and hit a fantastic race, not that out of the ballpark because he went in with a strong mindset because you went in with the belief that he could do it rather than going in, which is what we all tend to do. I've had an injury, things haven't gone to plan, therefore I'm not going to be able to do it and leave it home standing on the start line. I don't believe I can actually do it. And of course you're right. You believe as Henry Ford saying, I believe you can or you can't, then you're right.

Speaker 3: (22:54)
Okay. And this is why we put so much. And you know, my husband's a does iron man and triathlon and if you look at that lead up, they do the lead up, they do the big, big, big training days and then weeks and then they have the rest week. And then what does everyone do? I miss drop into nutrition stuff here, Lisa. They all go out and have pasta party. It's terrible. I just don't know how in this day and age, when we know so much about nutrition, is it that it's almost like it's so instilled in a bit in our culture, even if it makes no sense in the science,

Speaker 2: (23:33)
But used to make seeds so that yeah, we used to think load up with carbs. You know, you blockage on the spot cause up to the top, but you loading it with shit, carbs and probably stuff that you wouldn't normally, so then you'd double distressing your body. And then you're overloading it. So we don't get out our athletes at all to carb low. We, we want them to be on good, healthy nutrition and it depends and we work on the epigenetic side of it. If they do that, that program, if we can fit knowledge available and then we get them just to eat a little bit more and hydrate a little bit more in dry sleeper. That'll get more in the preparation and focus on the meditation. Focus on the breathing techniques, lowering the stress levels low, which CLIA,

Speaker 3: (24:17)
And that all lowers the inflammation, right?

Speaker 2: (24:20)
No, only the, the this, this whole mind, body connection, the home, you know, it's not just nutrition, it's not just meditation, it's not just training, it's this combined multipronged approach that really leads to ultimate success and long longevity in the sport as well.

Speaker 3: (24:37)
And even if we take that out of the sport, and I guess where I started that my, my big goal, my, my, my daily approach to life is, is I'm noticing stuff, noticing everything with intent and if we stop going through life half asleep, as most of us do, you know, statistics or die or we've got 85% of people hate their job based on a 2018 Gallup Gallup poll on average. It's, what is it, a 5.2 hours per day watching telly and four hours on social media as the average. Wow. You go to work for eight hours hating what you do, you traveled there and back. You spend the next nine hours either on social or watching television, you have to eat and sleep. That's a lot. That becomes a life. Yeah. And I think that our approach to our, I'm hoping repo if we can approach how we're running our life and the same way with the same intent fullness as we approach our running isn't going to get better.

Speaker 2: (25:41)
Yes. Yeah. And, and this is again going back to dr Joan in the leptin, they talk about the power of the subconscious mind that it's, you know, runs 95% of our day up to 99%. In other words, we're running on autopilot. You know, when you're driving home and you're listening to music and singing, you actually doing the singing, maybe consciously, but you're driving it subconsciously and you know, it's great because it means we can do things automatic and it's easier. We don't have to overthink it. And when we're training in developing a ritual, that's why it's hard at the beginning to develop a habit because we haven't got those groups in their brain where it's all subconsciously run. By the same token, they, that subconscious controls our behavior to a degree that we not aware of where their behaviors come from. So we've got this programming that we've had since childhood usually, or something that's happened traumatically and it's got into our programming.

Speaker 2: (26:38)
You're useless. You're not able to run your, to, you're always fed you or whatever it is. You can't speak, you're, you know, you're not, you're not going to be good at this. Whatever that programming was at that time, that's now sitting in your subconscious and you can read all the personal development books you want and you can consciously try and work on this. But if the subconscious program is running its own ship, you're fighting against David versus Goliath. It's such a powerful force. And this is why going in doing the meditation, doing self hypnosis, doing the co, you know, definitely doing the conscious exercises as well, the affirmations and the visualization and all that sort of stuff. But trying to go in and not let it subconscious just run, ride on its own without any, I'm doing that thought again that I don't want to do. You know, and I'm, I'm constantly working on my own sets of behavior. You know, I get very I've got a team Pat and I get really angry and frustrated at the computer mostly. And now I'm trying and a lot saying I'm perfect and [inaudible] straight to the main donation. When I feel that frustration and they want to Chuck it out the window, I'm damaging myself. When I'm feeling that stress, I'm damaging myself. So I try and get up and like try and leave it for five. Yup.

Speaker 3: (27:57)
And I think one of the really important things via, and we know it's critical and again, it's in the science we had designed, we must move on. I'm reading a fascinating book. The name is escaping me, but we can talk about it another time. Which looks at the connection between us becoming bipedal is never walking on two legs as organisms as opposed to being on four. And the connection between that and our consciousness developing and our cognitive development and the talking about how it's in so much science. If you, if you go and Google movement movement as medicine, we have to move. So when you get frustrated with your computer, nothing to do with the computer. But I beat show at least some of it as a smidgen that listen,

Speaker 2: (28:47)
Yes, a deadly. And I don't think it's just me, although I'm probably an extreme case of counselors though. But I, we know, and this is when I, something I miss now that I'm not doing the long distance running for example. And my, my business partner and coach Neil wakes up, pointed out this to me one day. He said, I see I'm really frustrated at the moment. I'm feeling really down and you know, and I've got all these tools to deal with it. The, where's it coming from? He said, we used to have hours running and that was time for your brain to sort stuff out and meditate it away and you are in motion all the time. And it gave you just your, your brain time to process everything. You don't have that now you're going from one, you know, computer job to another computer job to another computer job to working with mum to, you know, and it's just don't have that it's face in that time.

Speaker 3: (29:42)
It does. So it's, so movement is, it's, it's great for mental health. It's also exceptionally good for creativity. So we are creative brain finding novel solutions, novel outcomes, problem solving in our life happens far better when we're moving than when we're still, the book is called perfect motion [inaudible] motion. It's, it's very good. And it comes from a very strong science and you know, historical and scientific basis. It's very, very good. So movement is key. Movement is medicine movement and when we're injured, can I just jump back to X some and whether it's escalates or, yup, my injuries, whatever. Movement is the only way to rehabilitate. In the old days. If you sprained your ankle, you tweaked to knee. What did they do? Mobilized. You stop being active and mobilizing does not do anything to heal tissues, tissues here with movement. Now, sometimes we might put a patient in a moon boat, but we're putting them in the moment so they can keep emulating, keep moving, keep walking. And they will give them some limited exercises to start that strengthening happening or rehabilitation happening. But to risk something that cause it sore is the worst thing you could possibly do.

Speaker 2: (31:12)
Yeah. Now this is a really know this is an interesting and dangerous piece of knock off. Got the opposite problem. Like selfishly I'll ask you a question. I've got an injury with plantar fasciitis and I keep running and I do all the foam rolling and the foot release and the sayings and the what's the waivers and you know, then they help. But I keep running cause they can't stop run it cause I'm addicted to them up to, to training. Is that bad in which zone? Like, or is this a good thing and I'm, it's okay to keep, I mean, pushing, in other words, pushing through injuries, running, it's

Speaker 3: (31:52)
Through injuries. Well, it depends, doesn't it? It depends on is this, this, this safe, that safety buffer between your self protecting. So therefore you're not, you, you don't, you could actually do a little bit more. You're not going to break these, that safety barrier. And then at the top is the point that you're going to break. Now if you it decide to keep on going to the point of breaking, it's not gonna turn out well for you. Yeah. So that's knowing where you are in the middle of that. So I'd be asking you a few questions now. Plantar heel pain, we call it chronic plantar heel pain these days or chronic plantar heel pain syndrome. We don't use plantar fasciitis anymore because firstly itis means and there was no inflammation to be found of the plantar fascia. Right? So we've changed the same with like Achilles tendinitis gone.

Speaker 3: (32:50)
It's, it's Achilles tendinopathy cause there is no inflammation. So anyway, those just changes in our medical world. So it's the most caught heel pain. Chronic plantar heel pain is the most common injury that we see at any one time with 15% of the adult population suffering from it. At any one time. So the things, the questions that I would be asking you with these things, like have you got first stick pain in the morning when you first get out of bed, how many steps does it take for that pain to reduce or probably four minutes and five minutes of walking around the Hills. Yup. And then it reduces right down again. That's right. And then it's, if you sit at your computer and get up, does it feel erupt again? Yes, it does. It does. And if you go for a run, does it get worse? No, I can cope with it. That's the dangerous thing. Of course, when I'm warmed up

Speaker 2: (33:45)
I can, I don't feel it as bad. And so I think I'm lots of add. So I keep training and then again, the next morning I wake up again. I'm a negative.

Speaker 3: (33:53)
Okay. What do you wear on your feet during the day at home? I'm just at home. Right usually. Yup. So the first thing, listening to your story, and I haven't examined, you know, because I'm not sitting with you. First thing I would do would be to suggest we changed that one sector that you have. And I probably suggest something, I don't want to do a brand push here, but something like a also heel gender or something like that that has a contoured sole and a slightly flicker field to forefoot and that you don't do anything, be a foot. Okay. So it's a bit like

Speaker 2: (34:30)
Kelly's really we shouldn't if you've got an Achilles' don't run around before.

Speaker 3: (34:34)
Yeah cause the Kellys the interesting thing is there was the Achilles in the plant, that plant of first year runs from the heel to your toes underneath your foot and the Achilles that runs from your calf to your heel to function together. Yes. It's like a cradling. Yup. Right. So you should be doing your calf work. Yeah. Heel pain. So that's good. Yup. So all I want to do is change the forces on that bitch. That fascia. Yup. Alter those forces at the points that you normally in pain. Let's see what it does to your pain. Remembering that pain and tissue damage and not always exactly correlated. So I'd start with that one thing only and changing. Now I've got a free tip. Thanks for that. Yeah. And like you said, you posted was the science is changing all

Speaker 2: (35:24)
The time. Like we've been teaching, you know certain things play into the shadows and we all know that that does take a while to heal. It does take its time. But it's a pain in the ass, you know, and there's so many. We try and avoid injury obviously as much as we can. So and it's one of the most common things that we see coming up and he began to gain. So I'll try that. I will not go around bare feet anymore or actually at least put some shoes on when I'm at just walking around the house even. No, no, no. That works for the Achilles cause you know, when you in, when people are going from a cushioned shoe to a zero drop show, that's when we often see athletes get problems as well.

Speaker 3: (36:08)
Again, they can adapt. It's balancing out in that comfort and that little safety zone. Yes, we're, we're, how am I going to build the tolerance to new load without breaking them? And that is the challenge of every trainer out there.

Speaker 2: (36:23)
Yup. This is under training. We did talk briefly, we'll have to wrap up in a minute, but the buyer plasticity thing, we were talking before we got on this call recording about the fact that different people have abilities to withstand different amounts of pain in regards to whether the body with the dead individual thinks hurting themselves or not. And I said to you, I know that in my life, in through lots and lots and lots of training, I could get to a point where I nearly killed myself a few times because I would ignore my body's signs and signals to the point of, of stupidness looking bag. But, and, and I seek you by the same token, now that I'm haven't been doing super long stuff for a couple of years, that horizon of variability to go and push out to that level is also gone. But you reconnect via plasticity. Once you've got it, you have it will come back quicker.

Speaker 3: (37:20)
It w and, and the science is telling us, and this is recent, this is from last week's conference. The science is telling us that if we get young people active and moving and resilient and building tissues when they're younger, even if they spend, you know, 10 years sedentary and don't do anything, their ability to return to that is fun. It's easier and faster than someone who's never done that when, when they were younger. So we're starting from scratch. So Bioplast as a T is around the fact that our tissues are strong, we have huge ability. And one of the things I found fascinating we were talking about the league bone, the tibia. This was at the conference, the tibia, all the a runner. This is a hockey player and this is the thing that your guys may find really interesting. So bones, a deck with load.

Speaker 3: (38:16)
We all know that, right? So the more you load, and we know that people who run have higher bone density than people that are seen in tree. Okay. What I didn't know and I learned last week is that if we look at the shape, if we do a cross section of a tibia of a runner, the tibia will be from to back elongated. So it'll be long front to back and quite narrow. Yup. If you do the same thing with a hockey player, so cross section of a hockey players tibia, it will be the bone. This is the bone. The bone will be wider. Wow. As well as long. So what that suggests that the, and this is what they were talking about is that multidirectional exercise, stop, stop, push forward site. Yup. That is dynamic and high frequency is the best protection from, from bone injuries and bone injuries.

Speaker 3: (39:17)
Decreases the risk of stress fractures is one of them. Now you've talked about having heel pain. The other biggie in our runners is what we call medial tibial stress syndrome. Shin splints. Yup. Okay. Part of that is quite possibly because we're not doing enough multi directional work to build that within the bone would be going in one direction. So that was brand new to me. Thanks to sports medicine Australasia conference. So movement variability the question they asked of us to ask about our patients or about in your case, the people that you're training, can you do the same thing in different ways? So I try and avoid that. This is where we talk about mix up your shows. I talk about in my work with different shows and run on different terrains. Wow. It's awesome as well as cross training. So this is a model that is much more than this.

Speaker 2: (40:13)
There's some real deems eye for us to take away and I'll, what I'll do is I'll get you back on laser and we will go but more of a deep dive and the next time that we do this all those chips and injury prevention side of it if you wouldn't mind you're gonna yeah, we're going to have to wrap it up for the day, Lisa. But you have been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much. Now I'm going to link in the show notes to your group, your website. I'm also your charity. And where can people find you on like Facebook or Instagram and that type of thing lists.

Speaker 3: (40:45)
If it's around the bio mechanical side. So just find me through business but I a tree, that's that, that's the easiest way to find me there. And otherwise probably the links that you gotta use the being project as well, there is ways to hook up with me through that as well.

Speaker 2: (41:03)
Awesome. No, you're fantastic when they said thank you very much for being on the show today. We really appreciate all your insights and your enthusiasm for this topic and I'm cheering the latest and science and watch out for that. What does it running vibe, run vibe, run vibe, run vibe. Watch out for that in the future guys. And I'm checking it out when it comes on the market.

Speaker 3: (41:23)
Thanks Lisa.

Speaker 1: (41:25)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com   The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.