The Ghost of Christmas Future, a.k.a. Kathie, stops by and gives us her mother-of-seven-grown-kids perspective about intricate family dynamics at holidays, boundaries she’s set, and the cost of choosing yourself and your family over what you’ve always done. You know, stuff that no one really talks about publicly. She and I quickly go from deep and serious, to laughing and heckling each other, to disagreeing, to both being moved by Kathie’s exceptional vulnerability. Sorry for the whiplash, but it’s worth it. Kathie also makes me lose my shit with her take on “meaningful” gifts, and then we both confess the same holiday fail and how we handled it differently, and she shares the holiday tradition that her adult kids missed when she stopped doing it.