In this episode, Nutritionist, and Emotional Eating and Self-Sabotage Coach, Matty Lansdown, talks about dieting.
Today, Matty talks about emotional eating versus hunger, creating healthy and sustainable lifestyles, and the “Why x5”. What alternatives are there to reproduce the “dopamine hit”?
Hear about how to create healthier emotional escapes, intermittent fasting, and get Matty’s advice to his younger self, all on today’s episode of The Healthy, Wealthy & Smart Podcast.
Key Takeaways
“Emotional eating is eating for any other reason than nutritional requirement.” “How you do anything is how you do everything.” “We can’t undo the work of the past unless we know what created it.” “[intermittent fasting] can be different for everyone.” “That journey takes a little bit of time, and you’ll fall off the bandwagon - that’s also okay.” “Do you own research, learn, be open-minded, and move forward with absolute curiosity.”
More about Matty Lansdown
Matty Lansdown is a scientist, nutritionist, and an Emotional Eating and Self Sabotage coach
that specializes in weight loss and self confidence for women and busy mothers.
Starting out in the field of nutritional epigenetics, and spending several years working in hospitals as part of a disease research team, Matty believes that most disease and illness is not due to bad luck but as a result of poor nutrition and lifestyle choices.
Matty’s extensive experience allowed him to uncover the deeper challenge people have with
health which isn’t about calories or kale, but in fact mindset and behavior change.
Having been on his own personal development journey, Matty is now super-passionate about showing people how to level up their health so that healthy habits and the best food choices are easy and natural. Likewise, Matty’s weekly podcast “How to NOT Get Sick and Die”, provides his followers and clients with a deep dive into nutrition and how to develop healthy habits that last.
Suggested Keywords
Healthy, Wealthy, Smart, Diets, Fitness, Nutrition, Emotional Eating, Food Addiction, Sustainability, Food,
Recommended Reading:
Atomic Habits, by James Clear.
FREE Gift: How to Turn Food into Self-Confidence.
To learn more, follow Matty at:
Website: mattylansdown.com.
Facebook: Busy Mothers FB Group.
Mailing List: Join the Mailing List.
Podcast: How to Not Get Sick and Die.
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Read the Full Transcript here:
00:02
Hey Maddie, welcome to the podcast. I am happy to have you on today to talk about the D word. And we'll get into that in a second. But welcome to the podcast.
00:11
Hey, Karen, thanks so much for having me on.
00:13
Yeah. So like I said, we're going to be talking about the D word. dieting. Right? Yeah. Why does everyone go on a diet? Why do we think we always have to be on a diet? And of course, ultimately,
00:27
why a lot of them just don't work? Right? Yeah. It's such a good question.
00:32
Yeah. And I'm sure a lot of it, it has to do and we'll get into this, the psychology behind it, and why we eat and why we do the things that we do. And I know one of the things that you're really passionate about is working with people to understand their emotional eating. So can you talk about kind of what is emotional eating? And why do we do it?
00:55
Yeah, that's like the understanding that is really the the answer to possibly all health questions, I think, I think emotional eating to sort of classify it in like a textbook fashion, would be eating for any other reason than nutritional requirement. And then we get into the weeds instantly with what is nutritional requirement. Because we're in this world, unfortunately, that has, you know, anything in a bag, a box, or a can, is food that is somehow manipulated and changed and altered in a way that doesn't resemble the type of food that our genetics and our body is expecting to receive or familiar with receiving. And so that's why, you know, people are always looking for diets, because we've been consuming this food and living these very westernized lifestyles, which have led to bodies that are sadly, really unhealthy and really unwell. Whether that be through the lens of I've got access body fat, or whether that be through the lens of diabetes, or just any type of dysfunction in the body. It there's the diet is going to be a part of that in some way. And so we've created this Yeah, unfortunate reality where everybody wants to be on a diet, because they're marketed and sold to us as being the answer to basically getting your bikini body back, or pretending that a woman that's 55 can now be 21. Again, you know, and that marketing it, like, it appeals to everybody. Because of course we want, we all want our youth back. We all wish we could, you know, go back in time and be there where we thought we were fat then. But actually now in retrospect, we're like, oh, I wasn't bad at all. I wish I had that body. Or it might be in the case of like physical wellness and disease, which is like, yeah, I've eaten myself into some really significant health problems. And it's not just food, it's important to acknowledge stress, sleep, relationships in your life, the house that you live in toxins that they're all a part of the equation. But yeah, I think it's really important for people to I guess first understand, yeah, what is emotional eating, eating for reasons that are not nutritional requirement? And then second, why would I be eating foods, not for nutritional requirement? And then that's where we get into emotions?
03:03
And how, so how can people understand if they're eating is emotional eating? Does that make sense?
03:11
Makes perfect sense. Every single one of my clients asked the same question in the beginning. So the way that we sort of get to realizing that is, like, has have the diets you've tried in the past? Did they work for a short period of time? And then you went back to how you were eating before? Or did you you know, you couldn't wait, use lots of willpower for maybe 612 weeks, and you just couldn't wait for week 13 When he got the wine back, the chocolate back the pizza back. And if any of that stuff is a feature of the way that you've gone about food nutrition in the past, then it's highly likely that those foods that you were looking forward to putting back into the diet were consumed from an emotional standpoint, if you're thinking about the food that you're consuming six months or three weeks, that's not your hunger right now. That's definitely emotional. You are looking forward to having an experience that will bring you pleasure. So the way to sort of ascertain it in your day to day life is to sort of do an internal check in when you go to the pantry or to the fridge. If it's not mealtime, approximate mealtime. And that looks different for a lot of people. And you're not actually like, yeah, I've got genuine hunger in my stomach. And it's been a while since I've eaten it kind of makes sense that that now's the time. And you get there and you realize, I actually kind of don't feel that hungry, but I really want the thing. Want the chocolate want the nuts, want the muesli want the yogurt, whatever it is, but I'm not really hungry. There's definitely an emotion driving that behavior. So it's basically Yes, you got to check in with yourself and you've got to take a really conscience conscious 10 to 20 seconds to really check in with your body. And you might even do a little bit of breath work in that time just to calm your nervous system down to be like, am I actually hungry? And probably if you're listening to this, it's likely you're in a very privileged, wealthy country. It's probably very likely that you're going towards that Food for emotion rather than hunger?
05:03
And how can what can we do in those moments? So I need to like take a minute breathe. But if it is this emotional eating, how do we get to the sort of root cause of these emotions that are causing us to eat more?
05:17
Yeah, well, and that's a that can be a really confronting and heavy answer for some people. And like everybody that jumps into the work that I do a, I don't sugarcoat it in any way, I say this might make you cry. You know, we've been using these tools often to hide from, or cover up feelings that we're uncomfortable with, or situations, that might be a situation with our partner, that instead of having the difficult conversation that's been there for 15 years, we just get wine and chips every night. And I use that example, because I've had clients in that situation that when we removed that, some problems from a long time ago, we're able to be dealt with. And so the, I guess, the way that you want to navigate that is you don't want because we were essentially in that moment, we're using food as an escape, right? We're escaping an uncomfortable emotion or trying to move towards a pleasurable emotion. So if we ascertain the motivation, like, which is that first question, am I trying to escape? Or am I trying to move towards? Once we've answered that question, we can figure out, okay, we need a list of other alternative escape options, other than food, because sometimes we have to escape, because expressing your inner child's worst moment from when you were, you know, hurt, as you know, 1520 30 years ago, in the middle of a board meeting on Wednesday, is a really bad idea. Right? So it's not that we shouldn't always escape, sometimes we need to escape those feelings, because they're not practical to be dealt with in the current moment. So we need a healthy, what I call them routine swap outs. So it's like the eating the food is this ingrained routine or pattern that's automated. And through through this process, we bring it out of automation and into your sort of manual awareness. And then from there, we figure it out right? Now I know what I'm getting for this, from this escaping the pain or moving towards pleasure, what is a list of things that I can put together to change this routine, to be able to then create a more favorable outcome where I'm not punishing myself with food in the process. And then there's, of course, there's the, that's the escape, but then we also need to put a list of things together about how we might actually process because processing is really important. Otherwise, we're on this roundabout forever, hence, the yo yo diet cycle that many people have been on. And some recent research says that most women have been on 17 years of dieting and spent $40,000, only to be left with a problem that they never solved, basically. And so, so yeah, we've got to we've got to actually process so distinguishing the motivating factors, why it's there. And I call it the why times five. And it's kind of like just why am I hungry? It's like the surface level thing might be because I want food. That's like, Okay, let's go a little deeper. Why do you want food? Because I'm bored, bored of my work. I got up from my desk, and I moved to the kitchen. Why are you bored from the from your work? And it might be like, Well, I hate spreadsheets. Why do you hate spreadsheets, I don't feel super confident actually doing them. Like, I kind of feel a bit lost. And, and it's like, you know, I kind of just fumble through the task. And then the why that inevitably is at the bottom of that is I don't feel good enough, right? I don't feel capable enough, right. And it's and it might be one of those things. And that's, that's the little routine that we get people to go through every time they find themselves in a situation where they would be snacking, or even in the middle of a snack, or a binge or an Uber Eats order that you know isn't for hunger. And we dig down that little rabbit hole and you can see how very rapidly it can become very deep and confronting. But once we're there now we've finally confronted or met with the cause of the reason that these yo yo diets have cycled around for years and years and years, because most of those diets never deal with that piece.
08:59
Right? They just deal with, you know, eat, eat less food, eat this food, not that food, write everything down, keep a journal, all that kind of stuff, which works in the short term for many people. Yeah. And it comes back again, because I guess you're not really addressing some deeper things. Is that
09:21
accurate? Totally. Yeah, totally well, and the other thing is to like, where we're driven by dopamine humans are driven by the hormone dopamine, which is the happy hormone, the pleasure hormone, and it's the reason the species exists that drives us to procreate and have sex. It drives us to hunt food. But the catch is, because in the last 100 250 years, social evolution moved so rapidly along with technology is that we're now in this modern day world where we have access to dopamine. Keep in mind getting dopamine used to be risking your life hunting a buffalo, you know, or a wildebeest and there was a huge cost risk, like In order to get that dopamine, or it was like impressing a woman in much more traditional setting, in order to have sex for both parties, to engage in sex, the man would have to improve, you know, impress the woman, and vice versa. And again, it was a long Costas significant allocation of time before you got your dopamine. Now, we can wake up at 2am and pull our phone out and get a dopamine hit from our Facebook update, Instagram, Tik Tok, or even in most cities in the world, now you can get sugar, which massively like hits the dopamine button in a massive way, from a 711, around the corner that's open 24/7, or a service station or gas station. And so we have to put no effort in to get this hormone that we're driven to seek. So understanding sort of the science and the psychology behind dopamine drive, because many people actually go on this why times five exercise and they're like, I can't really find a belief for a trauma in my past that's driving this. And it can simply be biological addiction to the sugar, which then addicted to the dopamine, the happy hormones, because every single day of our life, we're trying to create situations where dopamine is available to us because it makes every human on the planet feel good.
11:13
And so what can we do? When we're in the thick of it to feel good without having that hit of sugar or snack or muffin? You know, you're at your desk and you're not feeling great? And because you know, offices, there's always a muffin or a donut or some sort of sugary something laying around. So when we're in those moments, what can we do to get that, that dopamine hit? I use that in quotation marks? Versus having the sugar and feeding that addiction, if you will, because it is an addiction.
11:52
Yeah, no, I totally agree. It's, it's funny often get asked as an emotional eating coach, what's the difference between emotional eating and sugar addiction. And it's one of those things that if you ask an emotional eating coach, they will say it's, you know, they're both the same. If you ask a sugar addiction coach, the, I'll say they're both the same. So it's very much is in that realm. But this list of things that we need to do alternatively, to produce that experience is going to be different for every single individual. And it's, the other thing is to that we've got to have like a really practical list and a little bit later in the week list. Because if you're a mom, or if you've got, you know, super busy job, you can't just necessarily respond to it in that moment, it's like, you know, you might need a list of options that can be done under two minutes. And that might include a little bit of breath, work, a walk around the block 10 Push ups, you know, something that moves your body and we know produces dopamine, it can be simply hugging somebody, like, you know, a lot of people go towards food for love and connection and security and safety and predictability. So and we can get all of those things from hugging somebody that we love. And these might sound overly simplistic because I often tell my clients, we want to find something of equal or greater value. And they're like, Maddie ain't nothing more valuable than a glass of wine. And so then we do this thing, which James clear in atomic habits talks about, which is habit stacking, essentially, which is like, we might need to do two or three of our little swap outs that we've come up with, in order to feel appropriately satisfied, that we can, you know, now put ourselves in a position of power to say actually, now I'm not really not really wanting the chocolate anymore, or the the muffin or the wine or whatever it is. And it's it might even to be just to elapse the time. And they do that a lot in sugar addiction space as well. When you get to the meal or you get to the pantry, you say, if I want it, I'll have it at the next meal. And you do that for every single meal. So you take the stigma away of you definitely want to get away from the don'ts. No, avoid can't have because that triggers our inner rebel to be like, watch me, I'll do that. But But yeah, so we want to take the stigma away from it. But But yeah, that little list of things is gonna be different for everybody. And yeah, we want to explore what's available to us. I literally have a little indoor trampoline. That's one of my own little routine stop outs. And it's purposely on the way to the kitchen because I run my own show from home. And I jump on that for literally about three jumps. And I've totally forgotten about food altogether. So yeah, there's a lot of different ways we can go about it.
14:27
So it sounds to me like achieving weight loss goals, or even just being healthier and fit, right because we don't want to have to tie everything to weight loss because that's not necessarily the goal for everyone. I think like you said before, being being healthy being fit, avoiding chronic disease, which happens a lot in people who are overweight. So it sounds like it's not so much about food, but it's about the psychology behind what we attached to that food?
15:06
Yeah, you're totally right. And I think it's one of those things I believe in the idea of how you do anything is how you do everything. And the thing that underpins the way you do food, the way you manage the relationships in your life, the way you walk up to your job, and how you execute, it's all from your own mind. So if we can work on that, then there's going to be a positive flow through all areas of your life, but equally food and if you are trying to lose weight, weight loss as well.
15:34
Right, and you know, people, people love plans, right? So out of this conversation, you know, it we're talking about changing habits and psychology and dopamine, and a lot of people might be thinking, Okay, what's, what's the plan? Give me a plan here, you know, like, what, what do I need to do to get healthier to be fit and perhaps to lose weight? How can I do that and sustain it? So what is your answer to that question? What's the plan?
16:05
Yeah, so the first step of the plan has to be looking backwards, you cannot understand how the present came to exist if you don't understand the past. And I think that's one of the problems with fad diet culture, and yo yo diets is that on Monday, change everything about your life. Why? Because apparently, that's better. And we instead, we can't undo the work of the past unless we know what created it. So we have to reflect on our past, whether there'll be a big trauma there that we can find, or whether we just understand on a deeper level that we've been convinced by 45 years of marketing and advertising the sugar industry, which spends literally billions of dollars, purposely to to addict you and convince you. So we have to understand how did I came to be now? Because if we don't know the answer that question, then no diet is going to work? If we understand that question, then we can start moving forward with okay, how can I navigate that space in a different way, because currently, the way I'm navigating, it has meant that over the last 25 years, I've gained weight every year, or has led to a situation where I've got a cancer diagnosis or a diabetic diagnosis or whatever it might be. Because if we don't understand the driver behind our behavior, where it's very unlikely, we're going to change it because we're not dead. And that's literally how the core reptilian part of your brain operates. It says, if we're not dead, everything we've been doing up until this moment has been relatively okay, because it hasn't killed us. So we won't change unless we can find some kind of understanding as to how we got here, and then also be inspired to be like, oh, and I can do it differently. Which is, you know, a lot of people get their inspiration from social media, but you really need to find that inspiration within yourself. Because there's only so long that we can want to be like, the person on Instagram or Tiktok, that we get inspired by every now and then we need to want to be better for ourselves or our children every single day.
18:01
Right? And I love that, you know, you're presented with a situation. And you kind of have to make that conscious decision, like you said, of how can I look at this situation and react to it in a different way than I normally would? So I think first it's, it's confronting the situation and having that sort of internal drive to say, Okay, this is what happens, I can't control the situation. But you know, people say this all the time, you can control how you react to it. And so my question is, you know, if we're working off of psychology, we're working off of patterns within the brain, the more you respond to the similar situations by maybe not having that handful of candy, or the muffin or whatever it may be, will that change that patterning in our brain eventually, so that when we get into that situation, again, the brain is going to be like, Oh, we don't not not necessarily know how to handle this in a different way?
19:01
Yeah, absolutely. It won't change it permanently, because the body and the brain. And evolutionarily speaking, we've identified that these fast sugar sources, you know, survival techniques, basically to eat these foods, even though we often live in very privileged, abundant worlds. The brain still is knows that like, oh, there's fast energy, so we're never going to get rid of it forever. And if you ever talk to a drug addict, or a sugar addict, really, that's in recovery, they, they they're under no illusion that it feels good at the time. And that's, you know, whether it be heroin, cocaine, alcohol, they're like, yeah, when I'm in the middle of it, it feels amazing. The same when you put the chocolate in your mouth or the lollies or the candy in your mouth. Like in that moment, it feels great. But the catch is that, you know, triggers a cascade so you'll always have this knowing and this knowledge in your mind that that's the experience. And if you've done it for decades, that will definitely be you know, those new runs in your brain will be really thick. However, we can start building up an alternative set of neurons, which by default will take the sort of physical thickness out of the other ones, it's because the brain works on it, you don't, if you don't use it, you lose it. So we want to start building up the neurons in a different pathway. And we want to do it slowly, too, we don't want to, it's not day one, throw everything out by 400 kilograms of kale and live your healthiest life, I have this little mantra that I that I always use, which is one tweak a week, we want to make one change. And that might be just focusing on breakfast this week, you know, and this is once we've already done the reflective work. But we've just just breakfast forget about every other meal, every other snack, just work on, you know, working on breakfast and making it great, and whatever great looks like for you. And then once that feels kind of normal to your nervous system, your identity, your personality, your routine, then we move on to the next one.
20:56
I like that. So you're not kind of bombarding your system with this huge change. Because like you said, like, I'm gonna start this program Monday morning, and, and everything's gonna be great, and it's gonna be no problem. And that's why people start programs and don't finish them. Or maybe they finish them. And then a couple months later, they're kind of right back to where they started. Because they didn't make the slow changes over time. Instead, it was just like, yeah, a shock to the system. And so from what I'm hearing is that it takes time, and that's okay. And I think you also have to give yourself some grace, to know that it takes time. And it's not something that's going to happen. Like, if, if your plan is to lose, I don't know, 20 pounds, it's not gonna happen in two weeks. And if it does, I'd say that's pretty unhealthy.
21:45
Yeah, and, like, yeah, we get caught all get caught up in marketing and advertising. And, you know, the, the amazing thing that's just around the corner, but most of the people I work with are sort of in their 40s 50s 60s. And they've done so much of that, that they're like, I finally got enough evidence after doing this for 30 years, that it doesn't work that way. And so if you think about it, I get people to think about it like a mountain. It's like, if you've been walking up the mountain for 25 years, and you're on the top of the mountain, the idea that you can change 25 years worth of behavior in like a 28 day challenge at the gym, or you know, an eight week program is like, even just in basic logic, it doesn't make much sense. So the reality is 25 years up the mountain, we might need to walk down and my mom is a perfect example. She's in the process of walking down it, she's lost 30 kilograms, which is like 70 odd pounds. thing. Yeah. And that's taken up for years. And she's still got plenty to go. But she's been in the situation. She's been with her health for 35 years. So we have to, unfortunately, it's unsexy. And it's not good for headlines, or clickbait or anything like that. We have to, you know, accept that this is going to be a 1234 year journey. But the good thing is every day of that journey, you'll feel better, you're moving in the right direction, rather than going from one extreme to the other.
23:07
Absolutely. And I have a couple more questions here. Before we kind of start to wrap things up. But another thing that I see a lot in the headlines is intermittent fasting. So can you talk a little bit about that what it is, and why would we want to do that?
23:27
Yeah, sure. So intermittent fasting is just spacing out the times that you do and don't eat, basically, because I think, well, there's a research study that came out of the US last year 2021. And they found that currently in 2021, Americans were eating on average, six to 11 times per day. And I would say if you're eating 11 times per day, it's really just once it's just once that never ends,
23:51
when really long meal,
23:54
just a grazing day. But that but the point of intermittent fasting is to start winding back the frequency. And a lot of people understand that it's like oh, fasting, so just don't eat. That makes sense. I'll lose body fat. And I'm really sort of anti that message. Because especially for women, because women's hormones really need to be nurtured and looked after, especially if they've been on so many different diets, which smash their hormones around all over the place. And so it's not any defined period of time, it's gonna look different for everybody. But it's basically just making sure that when you're not eating, you're really not eating. There's no snacking, there's nothing in between. And that allows the gut to go into a repair mode. Because we eat so frequently in the Western world, you can live a full 5070 years without your gut ever really having a day off. And we want the gut to actually repair itself because that's where a lot of the immune system lives. That's where the food you know, interacts with our actual body. So it's not necessarily about having a whole day away from food, but it's just about it might be returning to breakfast, lunch and dinner only. But no Next, it could be 7am, midday 7pm That might be intermittent fasting for you. Some people, it might look like breakfast moves till 11am, and dinners at 7pm. So we've got that's kind of like the typical 16 hours fasting, eight hours eating. But it's definitely not about going hardcore deprivation on hunger, you don't want to be experiencing overwhelming hunger. There's some things missing, and you're maybe not doing it correctly. But you'll find a lot of people on YouTube and Instagram and Tiktok that talk about just the the longer the fast, the better. I strongly disagree with that, especially for women.
25:35
Thank you, and thanks for clearing that up. Because that is something that we see a lot on social media. And so you think, oh, okay, so I'll just like not eat for a day and then eat again and then take two days off from meeting and just drink water tea. And then it's like, so unrealistic. And it just isn't the
25:54
same thing as all the other fad diets, which is throw you all over the place.
25:58
Yeah, it just doesn't it doesn't make any sense at all. So every time I see them, I'm like, I don't get it. But like you said, marketing works. Right. And this is dieting is a billion dollar industry. And we've been bombarded by these claims for decades it for, for a lot of us our whole entire life.
26:18
Yeah. Well, and if you're not a nutrition or biology expert in any way, it makes total sense if because if you think of the body through a single dimension system of calories in calories out, or energy and energy out, it's like, so I don't put energy in. Of course, I lose weight. That's the whole thinking process for most people. And that's why I totally understand it makes sense. But unfortunately, that's not the reality the body is so intensely complex. Oh, absolutely.
26:45
I mean, we're more than one system and more than one dimension. So yeah, so thank you for clearing that up. And and hopefully the listeners have a better understanding of what intermittent fasting is, and that it can be different for everyone. And that you should probably work with a health coach or a nutritionist. If you're thinking about moving into certainly intermittent fasting, I think, or working with folks like you to help get people to their, their why their five, the y times five, to kind of get down and so that they can really understand, okay, this is why I'm doing this. And I need to to face some hard truths in order to get beyond what I'm doing, because it's not helping me and it's not healthy.
27:39
Yeah, totally. And yeah, that journey takes a little bit of time. And that's okay. And guess what, you'll fall off the bandwagon. And that's also okay.
27:47
Absolutely. And now, I have a couple more questions. I have a question that I asked everyone, but we'll save that for a second. But what would you like the listeners to walk away with if they could kind of encapsulate what we spoke about and what you want them to remember? What would that be?
28:09
So I have spoken in, I've been fortunate enough to speak in many countries, on many podcasts, different things, and I've never met somebody that didn't know what to eat. Like a lot of people say information, information information. Information is not like nutrition education. And science is not the transformational variable, it's highly likely that you need to spend about 10 seconds thinking about what you should be putting on your plate you already know. So you already have all of the tools in your mind. But if things are not working, then it might be your psychology, your emotions, your mindset. So it's highly likely you've got the tools for the nutrition. You know what to do there. We need to go a little bit deeper is the take home message I would want everybody to leave with.
28:50
Yeah, I never thought about that before. But you're totally right. I mean, I know what to put on my plate and still on like, I don't know, I think I'd rather that gummy bear. That's probably better.
29:02
That's yeah. That's not like chocolate good for breakfast. Nobody's ever asked me that. Like,
29:08
I think I think that would be a better dinner. Of course, it's not a better dinner. Like we know this. We total it up. Okay, so now where can people find you? If they have questions? Social Media website, all that fun stuff?
29:23
Yeah, sure. So, my website, Matty lansdown.com. So you can just check out stuff there. We got some articles and few different things there. We've got a Facebook group specifically for mothers. So it's called the Healthy mums collective. And that's for people that are wanting to end their emotional eating and feel good in their own skin again, and Facebook website podcast, how to not get sick and die is the name of my podcast. So yeah, we're just about to hit 200 episodes, which is amazing. So come and hang out there.
29:52
Awesome. Congratulations. That's a big milestone. And we'll have we'll have direct links to everything at this podcast web. site which is podcast at healthy, wealthy smart.com in the show notes for this episode, so one click will take you to everything that Maddie has going on. And you can learn more about him on his website. And if you want to work with him, you can also learn how to do that on his website. Okay, so Maddie, last question, and it's one I asked everyone is knowing where you are now in your life and career? What advice would you give to your younger self?
30:27
Oh, that's a good question. I know that my younger self would not believe I was this older self. He'd be like, you're like a drunk, hippie. But probably to be more open minded. When I started out in western medicine, where I worked in a cancer hospital, I worked in many laboratories. I just thought everything outside of that field was woowoo nonsense, and, and I was so solid in my convictions that science and medicine was the greatest thing ever. Because if it wasn't, then why would it exist? And that was before I really understood capitalism. So yeah, I would just say to people that there's you know, there's a little bit of truth in absolutely everything. And there's a do your own research, learn, be open minded, and just move forward with absolute curiosity. I was not curious enough as a younger scientist, and it led me to well just be delayed in the way that I executed my life and my success, I guess, but, but yeah, be open minded is what I would ask my younger self to be.
31:31
I think that's great advice. I love it. The listeners, I'm sure appreciate and love it as well. So Maddy, thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of this. And again, everyone, check out his website. And if you want to work with him, you can get all the information on his site. So Maddie, thanks so much.
31:48
Thanks, Karen. I appreciate you hanging out with me.
31:51
Absolutely. And
31:52
everyone. Thanks so much for listening and have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.
