EP151 - Tyson Food E-Commerce VP Tim Madigan and Samir Bhavnani of 1010data
Tim Madigan is the Vice President of eCommerce at Tyson Foods. Samir Bhavnani is the Vice President Consumer Insights at 1010data. We caught up with Tim and Samir at the 2018 GroceryShop tradeshow in Las Vegas.
"The State of Grocery" PDF Report from 1010data
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Episode 151 of the Jason & Scot show was recorded on Monday, October 29th, 2018.
Join your hosts Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg, SVP Commerce & Content at SapientRazorfish, and Scot Wingo, Founder and Executive Chairman of Channel Advisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing.
Jason: [0:25] Welcome to the Jason and Scott show this episode is being recorded live from the grocery shop trade show in Las Vegas on Monday October 29th 2018 I'm your host Jason retailgeek Goldberg, unfortunately Scott is unavailable for this episode so you get twice the Jason for half the usual cost but to make up for it we have some great news we have two great guest for this episode returning to the show third timer Samir bhavani is the vice president of consumer insights at 10:10 data welcome back to the show Samir. Samir: [0:58] Thanks for having me Jason it's good to be back for the third time. Jason: [1:01] It's a it's a rare full of people that have made it three times so we expect you to continue to be a, bassador for the shows you've been and then joining us is a first-time guest Tim Madigan is the vice president of e-commerce Commerce at Tyson Foods. Tim: [1:19] Thanks for. Jason: [1:21] Sofa, books that are not listening to every episode of the show and shame on the three of you that are doing that Sammy was on show 103 which was our Amazon private label show and then you came back for one, talk shows if I'm not mistaken which I think was episode 125 and so folks would probably hurt a little bit, background but remind everyone exactly what it is that 1010data. Samir: [1:48] Yeah sure so I think many of you guys are familiar with tents and we've been around for over 20 years now what we do is, we help companies take big data and turn them into basically smart insights using a very powerful cloud-based analytical platform. Jason: [2:05] They go in like more specifically you have visibility into like how consumers make purchases consumers make on some of the big platforms that are not very open themselves. Samir: [2:18] ESO a great way to kind of distill things down is that we have a very nice lens into how consumers are spending their discretionary income so it's things like you are people buying Huggies or Pampers right Fiji or hints are they taking Uber or Lyft. Jason: [2:33] Very cool and so we will hear more about that throughout the show and then Tim of 1 ways we always like to start the show is share a little bit of background about how you how you sort of matriculated in your career to this current role. Tim: [2:46] Sure yeah I started my career with Procter & Gamble and kind of came up with your traditional sales marketing and did that for about 12 years and while at P&G I done had the opportunity to, work with Walmart as they were trying to figure out consumables e-commerce they wanted to sell diapers and beauty products online diapers.com was becoming a thing Amazon was getting into the space so Walmart realize they needed to, going to start selling products and I was tasked with the opportunity to leave that relationship for Procter & Gamble and so over the course of five years, and we built the team I built a business from United basically zero to a hundred million dollars and just really learned, from the very early stages and consumers e-commerce what the effective ways to do e-commerce online wear for consumables then had the opportunity to go to SC Johnson. [3:43] And work with us in Johnson and creating an overall strategy build out a team going to put the foundational elements in place to, do e-commerce across a company it was a really great learning experience for me and also really help icj kind of take that first step into digital income, in about 2 years ago had the opportunity to come to Tyson at that time grocery e-commerce was just beginning to be a thing, and I'm Krogers in Walmart and Amazon Raw, looking to Tyson as a major food supplier to understand you know how to how is the space going to evolve unfold online and expected Tyson to really have a seat at the table to be as strong, partner in that and so I was asked to come Tyson to help create that capability for the company. Jason: [4:32] Very cool, so am I'm so jealous I feel like every place you've ever worked at Super familiar you never have to explain what your company does, the people in an elevator when you work for a goofy agency that changes his name every week you don't necessarily have that luxury, in your P&G days was that sort of like that, business units or was it like winning a particular product family. Tim: [5:14] So gay a straight question so it was very early and that, we had an amazon.com team which was probably to three people and Seattle and then we had one e-commerce person that was sitting in Cincinnati banging on the brand managers door saying there's a thing called e-commerce coming we better figure out how to do it, so I was one of the very first teams outside of that we didn't really have a corporate approach yet, I'm so very early days I was sitting on the couch typing out content forms and really figure out merchandising marketing strategies cuz we just didn't have a Playbook yet, within about 2 years though doesn't take PNG long they very quickly created at centralized capability and brought in the central team, created at corporate strategy and capabilities so that other folks like myself out in the field we're working with retailers had that sort of enabling Center of expertise that were supporting. Jason: [6:15] It is funny one of the things I have observed in a lot of companies is like that initial Amazon team like they almost always they started out as the interns right. Tim: [6:25] Yes. Jason: [6:27] Let you know most Junior people in the organization got assigned to this like relatively meaning less account and then obviously like as it's it's grown in prominence it's now, like one of the most significant roles in all these companies and so it's a it's an interesting Evolution to see those interns grow up to rule the world and then, sort of fun I want to dive into your rolling your scope at Tyson but before I do that I want to jump back to Sammy and I know you guys just published this size of digital grocery report and not I think you can download it for me website so I'll put a link to that in the notes but I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit, like what that report was an and maybe share some of the cool insights. Samir: [7:07] Yes sir so I'll finish for some of the insides as we're talking and says to bring some things up but, one of our one of our analysts her name is Julia Mello author author the report and it's just Fantastic look into will work on the rise of online grocery and it's very time we obviously right being here at 8, grocery shop talk to grocery shop show and some of the things that that we looked at were, how successful are places like Peapod or Walmart grocery right versus some of the other more traditional players and you know some of the stats that popped out one is like just the growth of it is, outlandish Rye were seeing over 30% year-on-year growth and in specifically in the online grocery space, and we Define that is in a different than buying something from you know Amazon.com or target.com you know it has a lot to do with, cooking class with places like instacart Etc and one of the findings that was kind of unique is that people who do shop, online grocery 10:10 to spend a lot more money than the general populace, which is certainly good news I found some of those like as the touchpoint changes the behavior change. Jason: [8:22] Changes the behavior changes. Samir: [8:25] So fascinating just around Orlando but it's been really into. Jason: [8:30] Interesting to me to see you like foods that don't sell as well in store. Samir: [8:33] Yeah it was not obvious. Jason: [8:38] Up to me but like sometimes these in. Samir: [8:39] Is there a shopping cart around the store with a giant. Jason: [8:46] NBC. Samir: [8:46] And be seen by their neighbors but that but when it comes to having nothing loaded right in your trunk. Jason: [8:51] It's get. Samir: [8:52] Get the big thing I've been in, so that point is very important right the ice cream thing and dodging items the other thing to is the ability for people to discover items if they wouldn't ordinarily purchase, partially for the same reasons also because online gives you an opportunity to be marketed to write whether it's like a vegan burger for example, yeah I think there's dent above a challenge and an opportunity in the different marketing vehicles that are available. Jason: [9:17] Digital Lake but let's. Samir: [9:18] Zoom in a little bit on. Jason: [9:21] I want to think I was interesting to me. Samir: [9:23] Ecommerce in your title which is very near and dear to my heart so I was like that but I thought you can have very different scope a different company. Jason: [9:32] So can you talk maybe a little bit about what what it means in texting. Tim: [9:35] Yeah so are primary go to market is through retailers and so the key for us is you know we've spent, decades in creating category management and Shopper Marketing in all of these other, analytics and skills on how do we optimize the in-store experience in a what are those right tactics and tools to to really make our business performance. [10:01] I look at my job and my team's job is doing the same thing but for online, through those retailer so it's now it's no longer and I all but it's now a screen that we've got to figure out how to optimize our portfolio for, so that's everything from the basic content to merchandising marketing to understanding you know what's working and optimizing across those three on a letter, and then you know I think Sam made a great Point around the the portfolio in understanding the portfolio that performs well and store isn't necessarily the same one at the forms while I'm lying so, as a company we need to send to rethink and reprioritize what we're focused on, I'm at work think about online that said we are also considering the drive to Consumer and we have several brands in our portfolio that do some direct-to-consumer today Adele's premium sausages one, where there's a really big fan following for it and it's not available everywhere, and so that's a great product that you know is pretty pretty Nick pretty Gourmet, we want to make sure all call the consumers who want to have access to the brain can find it. Jason: [11:10] Very cool and send me a little bit earlier to like this notion of hey you have different tools for digital marketing than we did in traditional Shopper marketing. Samir: [11:19] Shopper marketing once one of the two. Jason: [11:22] It was weird I allowed on Shopper marketing is like Shelf adjacency. Samir: [11:26] Want to launch a new product one of the best ways to get eyeballs in from the new product is that new brother. Jason: [11:31] On the Shelf next to a popular existing. Samir: [11:32] Will pop your existing product. Jason: [11:35] Use all the traditional instrument in vehicles to drive tension to it in. Samir: [11:39] In digital it like I feel like we have a lot more spearfishing people are searching then go you no right to. Jason: [11:42] Fishing people are searching then go you no right to a search result and then do a product listing page. Samir: [11:49] Or you know God forbid there. Jason: [11:50] Lowe's customer they start shopping off a recurring list. Samir: [11:54] It's a one of the things I always worry a little bit about is we lose some of the Opera. Jason: [11:55] The things I always worry a little bit about is we lose some of the opportunities for those impulse sales and for what I like to call serendipitous Discovery just cuz it's super fun to say Serendip. Samir: [12:06] I mean you at now that later in the hall when you're just saying. Jason: [12:10] I'm just saying serendipitous you're going to think of me so. Samir: [12:14] Like is like part of that challenge. Jason: [12:15] Part of that challenges the onus is going to be on the Retailer's to figure out but is that a conversation you have with retailers and is that something you guys think about or worried. Tim: [12:24] An app for sure special on new innovation right and that's our company's life like it is you know we want a significant amount of our growth and our sales every year to come from new innovation so, definitely something we spend a lot of time thinking about your point, where sometimes a limited to the tools and capabilities of the Retailer's platforms, so it's starting there and also bringing ideas and I'll right now especially in grocery the shopping experience is different you're very much at a shelf view versus you know item-by-item at like you having a. Com you so, the platforms involving for sure in a different way so we've got a partner on intestinal are no way there little bit, but I will say you don't know the area that we're really trying to think through is what are the, opportunities we can bring outside of the retailer platforms that enable that Discovery so we are spending any time we launched a new Initiative for spending money on driving awareness, Across the Universe online digital in other other kind of places and so that that question is how do we connect, I'm not point of awareness or inspiration directly to the cart and saw things like recipe to car is a great example, have a capability that you know is it's pretty new but really unlocks that opportunity to say, I found us they are interested in us let's just kind of try to close the deal and put a ride into the car. Jason: [13:52] That one is fascinated by that use case tell me if I'm wrong but this is the first year of grocery shopping show dedicated to digital. Samir: [13:53] Fascinated by dad use case tell me if I'm wrong but this is the first year grocery shopping show dedicated to digital online. Jason: [14:01] And regular listeners will know I spent a lot of time in line and Starbucks I'm pretty sure. Samir: [14:06] Second person in that Starbucks online. Jason: [14:07] Second person in that Starbucks online is somehow involved in a recipe to carts business. Samir: [14:14] Like that I ran into to today. Jason: [14:20] When people are are at experimenting and pilot. Tim: [14:24] Absolutely it's funny you say that but you're right and it and it went within a year, it's it happen like that and I think you know it's in there are several different approaches they're taking everything from you know I'll be a widget within your media to know know I'm going to be the media platform and you got to work through me, which puts and calls for each of those I think you know the more you can I think that's this is true across most of what we're dealing with, you got to be able to play within an ecosystem, and so if you're going to be a supplier in a survey new piece of innovation you've got to be able to work with an existing Partnerships and and relationships that are out there, I'm guessing it's too hard to just come in and sort of kick out an existing agency relationship and partnership media investment it's been really challenging. Jason: [15:14] So when you have a lot more experience and cpg than I do but in my observation it like traditional mod. Samir: [15:21] There were two Big Marketing budgets in in. Jason: [15:24] It's in in most most I mean probably more. Samir: [15:26] That I mean probably more marketing budget that earmarked for specific retail accounts right. Jason: [15:31] For specific retail accounts right and get spent on various activities that are mutually beneficial and then there is a brand marketing function usually what you know run by some see him know that's famous for going to South by Southwest in. Samir: [15:40] Usually what you know run by some zmo that's famous for going to South by Southwest and and doing some of those. Jason: [15:47] Does Advanced Khan and Davos and all that crazy stuff as we moved to digital I feel like, to me is sort of digital Shopper marketing like summer. Samir: [15:59] Shopper marketing, Sears on the Shelf in front of content but in a way that's analogous to the original account Bay Shopper marketing but then some of those other activities you just mentioned like the the recipe. Jason: [16:15] 2p stuffing and some of those other activities. Samir: [16:19] Digital versions of traditional. Jason: [16:20] Digital versions of traditional brand marketing. Samir: [16:24] Do you feel like digit by it sounds like something booked. Jason: [16:25] Do you feel like digit like it sounds like something booked of some of those functions are in your scope and that maybe wouldn't have been true in the old world. Samir: [16:32] Shopper Market. Jason: [16:34] Stars and brand marketers. Tim: [16:35] No it's really interesting so I'd say neither one of my scope and that's been the challenging part right we we grew up in the silos and we're going to figure it out over the course of decades this is how I play this is where you play and we wrote the rules so that nobody would, you know step on each others toes and, budgets could be really clearly defined and blame could be a sign when things didn't go so well but this is absolutely disrupted that and I think, going to be a, we've got to figure out new ways of working together and so literally at Tyson in the last six months we've created a digital Innovation group, which is the combination of a brand marketing organization going to lead our Shopper marketing myself and our technology guys and so we've created so this, that's really focused on understanding and what are those emerging spaces recipe to cart being one voice being another and how we are going to go play in those spaces and who's going to take point, but it's much more of a collaborative effort and we were going to do this in conjunction with one another versus lots of one-offs you're doing this over here and I'm not aware of it because unless unless we coordinate we're not going to do this. Going to go swell. Jason: [17:55] Interesting so am I. Samir: [17:56] So he my mind like you guys are evolving to sort of in a boat organizationally figure out the right up. Jason: [17:59] Going to sort of in a boat organizationally figure out the right approach and then we have to figure out what the right digital tactics are. Samir: [18:06] At the same time. Jason: [18:07] Most of these activations require some partnership with a retailer and it feels. Samir: [18:10] Partnership with a retailer and it feels probably like. Jason: [18:13] The retailer silos are also involved. Samir: [18:16] And I think it's sort of. Jason: [18:19] Early days at Walmart. Samir: [18:19] Walmart labs in San Bruno or still is in and most most of the merchants are in Bensenville in, yeah you did yesterday had a lot of collaboration between the digital arm and and traditional arm of the retailers are you. Jason: [18:36] Of the retailers are you seeing the functions at various retailers. Samir: [18:40] Evolved. Jason: [18:43] With you on these more integrated programs or is that still a challenge. Tim: [18:48] What's funny because I I started and cpg and shelf-stable world through that, I felt like, it was definitely that Dynamic you were talking about but over the course of several years especially as diapers as an example some of these categories became meaningful businesses that really impacted the store Merchants bottom line they, forced that collaboration between the two and integrates between the two groceries back to where that was 8 years ago, so it still feels very much like you have a lot of digital teams, responsible for the interface and then the merchants who you know because he's our store pick models by and large, their decisions for what's happening in the store is reflected online but there's really no coordination between the two around you know I'm going to choose this assortment because, you know it could work in both our I'm going to add this item that may not be a big store seller but could be bigger there's none of those types of conversations happening right now and it's much more you know I'm going to focus on my store I know it's going to do something over here online, adult digital guys that are part of my company are going to go figure that out. Samir: [19:59] So for sure. Jason: [20:02] It seems funny. Samir: [20:03] You're jumping from as as Industries material you're jumping to the last mature markets that are having to reinvent the Roundup. Jason: [20:07] Two less mature markets that are having to reinvent their own approaches and stuff which is week we talked about before the show there's there's no play but for that it's kind of fun cuz you get to. Samir: [20:17] It's kind of fun cuz you get that to figure it out.
Jason: [20:21] The it was my thoughts I'm just going to put enough. Samir: [20:29] Pause. Jason: [20:31] The awkward pause 2009. Samir: [20:36] Everybody doing alright, so Jason: [20:47] Retailer is also evolving. Samir: [20:48] Evolving I just want to work with you like in this New World by any. Jason: [20:54] Any particular best practices or tips you. Samir: [20:59] Have a branch of you thinking about. Jason: [21:00] How Branch should be thinking about partnering with retailers in in this sort of new integrated digital world. Tim: [21:07] The first the first thing we had to do was reassessed the landscape, one when I got to Tyson we had decided that we were going to make a big investment in Amazon, what course you did right Amazon's the underground gorilla that dynamic in our world is in grocery specifically online is there not quite there yet, Sammy I don't know if you want to come to speak to who is there right now. Samir: [21:39] Yeah I mean that's that is that is such a big piece because like if you look at what the general consumers going to think you think Amazon is winning, everything and the reality is is that Amazon is still very much in its infancy and just finding its feet in grocery right so, if you look at online grocery on Amazon's not even the fastest growing right so Walmart's the fastest growing right instacart one of the fastest-growing, and while Amazon is growing it's nowhere near the, for the scale of of what some of these others so that Walmart has that over a third of a share of online, and amazonfresh is under 10. Tim: [22:22] And says so is we reimagine our structure you know that the structure that a lot of cpg companies started with was we're going to build this little e-commerce team, that's going to fix own care play build the capabilities to enable pure clay and then eventually those capabilities will sort of, go out to these in a brick-and-mortar brick and click stores as they start to accelerate, we've almost got a flip it a little bit and grocery because of that point RR Walmart team is feeling the impact already of grocery, online and some of those stores are doing between 5 and 10% of their business through online grocery and Walmarts in wow and that's really changing then that Walmart customer team that grew up and built all there, skill sets and functionality around in-store execution, they need some support now they need capacity expertise now to focus on line and so that really part of what we've had to Pivot on over the last year too, it's a-okay yep it was important we're going to work on instacart so that's part of the eye space that we own Cuoco pure-play, big enabler for us now is how do we go and really focus on the Krogers in the Walmart because that's really where the size of the businesses today and a growth is happening. Jason: [23:43] I don't know what the data is. Samir: [23:43] Is granular nuts about this or not but in my mind. Jason: [23:49] Part of the secret to Walmart success in and also. Samir: [23:52] Kroger is curbside pickup. Jason: [23:55] And in. Samir: [23:56] That's one of the like differentiators between Walmart and Kroger and Amazon. Jason: [24:00] Amazon is like Walmart has 4,000 store. Samir: [24:02] Walmart has 4,000 stores over 2,000 of them are now in. Jason: [24:06] Free pick up Kroger I think has like 800. Samir: [24:08] Flag store and you know Amazon wasn't in the pickup game at all until they bought Whole Foods. Jason: [24:15] And to their credit I feel like they've. Samir: [24:16] If you've all of that I've been very quickly but it's in. Jason: [24:21] 400 stores and it's in the. Samir: [24:22] Stores in it in the stores in the markets that are most friendly to delivery versus pick up in a half of them so Whole Foods is a really fun little sandbox that Amazon's experiment thinking today, and it gets a lot of new lot of press a lot of people talk about it the Whole Foods is not a very big retailer right that's the fact of the matter, and when you look at scale when you look across the country right it's the Kroger's and the Walmarts were people are shopping and which have the ability to do, curbside pickup right at a much broader scale so let's change topics a little bit from. Jason: [25:01] Thinking about the retail side to. Samir: [25:03] Decide to evolution of bran. Jason: [25:07] Nights are you you are now sitting at. Samir: [25:08] Sitting at top of the dream well-established brand is trying to figure out. Jason: [25:13] It feels like increasingly your competition are these new startup brands that don't have near you. Samir: [25:15] Play your competition are these new startup brands that don't have near your scale but they also don't have any of. Jason: [25:25] Impediments are infested, they have to carry three ways, circassian like shelf-stable cpg are you are you seeing that in in food as well. Tim: [25:36] Yeah you know I'm reminded of when I was down on the Walmart team with Procter & Gamble we were looking at our shave business and it started to decline pretty quickly, and we couldn't see where it was going typically are, reports would say while we're seeing some Camel shift it's going to Dollar General or you know it's moving over to Target and then, the but we didn't see we just saw the category declining and we saw our brand declining, I couldn't understand why we look around the office and we saw some scruffy looking guys and so maybe they just not shaving is much in this mode ever November thing is really, well know we were listening every morning on our ESPN Drive in hearing about this company called Dollar Shave Club and how funny they were great. [26:25] And all the sudden they took 300 million out of the category and out of the stores but are classic data and Analysis didn't have any way to account for that anyway to show us that shifting and so as far as we were concerned, it wasn't happening we just until we were caught very flat-footed that's my fear an obsession right now in food, there's a lot of these companies you're talking about the grass wet grass pads in the locals in the Organics that are you know they're 10:50 million dollar type companies but they're all live, and there's some of them that are scaling pretty quickly, and so the dishes we just don't have the visibility the data and to how fast or how many of them are are out there and so, absolutely an area that we've just got to get better at and it's actually we worked a little bit with Sammy and Tenten and that's one of the challenges I put forth to him is how do we understand where, these new up and comers that we just don't have on our radar where it where are they who are they and how fast do they run. Samir: [27:30] So I will turn the question like are you. Jason: [27:32] Like are you starting to see some of those like new brands Emergen captures and market share online and. Samir: [27:40] Yes and that's the that's the challenge right where everyone's been dealing with this weather your Nielsen or NPD or iri or 1010data Rakuten or never is, catching hold of of one of these companies that's all the sudden going to start hockey stick me in becoming a really big company and what what Tim brought up is a really good point is, is when you're looking at the data sometimes on an individual on one DTC, it that individuals you to see maybe maybe just too small to report on and maybe insignificance report on, but if there's 80 or 90 of them right that are that are growing very quickly all of a sudden you've got this thing and, right in the last thing you want to do is to be Dollar Shave Club again right live through it once you don't want that to happen again and so what we do from the, in the day the world is were constantly working with our data providers to ensure that we have visibility to anything new that comes forth, I'm in a great example of that is we very recently were able to split out the Walmart grocery piece from the Walmart piece once it got to a point where the scale is big enough, that we had sufficient sample to make Market estimates, that's going to become increasingly important a lot of retailers in Walmart so perfect example in in grocery is a hundred percent, I can tell you different. Jason: [29:05] They're trying to promote skus that are available in the store. Samir: [29:07] Use that are available in the store and the capability gets drones for by store so I've been talking a little bit I feel like something I should be thinking about, sales metric for online. Jason: [29:19] Because Walmart. Samir: [29:21] Walmart reporting this huge e-commerce, is there a tracking more more customers to the website and whatnot but a lot this because they just added the grocery capability to a bunch of more stores than they had the year before. Jason: [29:35] So you know in some ways you almost have to think of it like a. Samir: [29:39] Storm Atronach Forge a merchandising I might argue that Walmart has sort of the opposite merchandising strategy that they're really trying to focus on having a long day. Jason: [29:49] They put a lot of emphasis on the marketplace. Samir: [29:50] If a lot of emphasis on the marketplace and you know they're trying to get, use most of which are getting fulfilled by third-party providers or from a fulfillment center in so I do really need to think about them as, different business that's another good example so with Amazon right people look at Amazon 1 p.m. Amazon 3 p.m. sufficient data to split those in to see what's happening Amazon direct and what's happening with the marketplace, Walmart even though they're making this push towards Marketplace, candidly just doesn't have the volume in those traditional Goods to Warrant us breaking that out at this point in time it might be another couple of years before we able to see what's Walmart third-party doing compared to Walmart first party, a side note one thing that is different from the Heyday of Dollar Shave Club you you mentioned what they have would like. Jason: [30:41] You mentioned you would have had would like all those ESPN ads. Samir: [30:46] Today of course if people are driving a word. [31:01] So one of the things. Jason: [31:02] One of the thing that's interesting to me thinking of. Samir: [31:05] About the emerging Brands and did you need a brand purses. Jason: [31:08] And did you need a Brands versus a new products and Innovations in existing companies as they. Samir: [31:16] Exact opposite so if I start a new come. Jason: [31:17] Opposite problems so if I start a new company today the world is made it much easier right. Samir: [31:22] Made it much easier right I can go, Shopify side and you know I can hire you know 99designs to do my marketing and I can do all these things with my credit card on the weekend. Jason: [31:30] Things to do my marketing and I can do all these things with my credit card on the weekend. Samir: [31:35] Company pretty quickly find a group of loyal customers wants a product to them and get real-time feedback and so I can innovate and iterate really quickly in it. Jason: [31:44] Expensively which is. Samir: [31:45] Great most of this man's are really struggling to hit some peeps kale and in your organization I suspect when there's a new idea. Jason: [31:50] And in your organization I suspect when there's a new idea. Samir: [31:55] What can this idea be big enough to be financially, why I'm always curious how big companies that are the Cavs Gail think about. Jason: [32:03] Bunnies that already have scale think about Innovation and how do you sort of you know instill some of those advantages of the little company in your big company. Tim: [32:12] Yeah it's a it's a really great question and you know it as a company I think we several years ago came to that conclusion that you know Innovation gets washed if it's, you know if it feels cortical too small of an idea, yeah we just still wouldn't let it play out if you would see a trend and it might be too early, by the time you react it's also going to be little bit late so as a company what we've done is created a couple different entities internally, we have one or innovation team which we've had for a while is really focused on call 12 to 18 months out. [32:49] Fairly close in animation new flavors new forms some adjacent categories and so that there's that group focused though but we also then recently created a new products the lab, which is really kind of taking off the, Elders of this is what we do today to where are some interesting protein spaces coming from so where can we innovate in a great example that is our God, that is essentially comes in a tennis ball kind of a can and instead of being a potato chip or like a pringle chip it so it's a protein shake, so it's brand new initiative brand new idea, and we're launching it in a very sort of small pilot but scale up kind of way that would not have happened before this team. [33:42] And then the other area that we brought on is our new Ventures team, and so that is allowing us to find a new companies that are, testing kind of smaller nitty spaces and I'll give an example of going to be on me, vegetable proteins Memphis meat is another company that we've invested in which is sort of lab-grown protein, and these are early days for the four especially Memphis meat but what we're seeing is this is an opportunity space, and as a company we want to be able to be the world's best producer of protein and we're raising the world's expectation for what good food can do, and that means we're going to have to go beyond just land-based animal proteins, and so by investing early on and some of these companies we get to learn a lot and we get to see them scale, and then you know continue to think through down the line how do we integrate you know they're there Prada. Samir: [34:47] Oh so you can actually also help them scale right that's a really big deal to cuz a lot of these companies have no idea how to get on a store a store shelf, I want to follow up on that a little bit but you I had one. Jason: [35:02] Not a little bit but you I had one terrifying thought while you were saying that but I just want you to make me comfortable about. Samir: [35:06] About we're not all. Jason: [35:09] Just drinking Soylent to Prairie me. Tim: [35:11] It's pretty tasty I never have one, not you know and I think you look as we look out just eating 20 years the challenges of feeding the world they're pretty daunting, and Tyson we believe is one of the handful of entities out there that can help find a solution, and that's going to require a range of offerings so hopefully we can still have our steak dinners when you come to Vegas, yeah there's going to be new forms of protein that will have to be you know brought in in order to see the world. Jason: [35:48] Personally I'm banking on us all dying of dehydration before we run out of protein but I know it's a it's a race so well. Samir: [35:54] See how that plays out going going back to the investment side of innovation like what. Jason: [36:00] Nations like what's the out the best outcome for you there like would you ultimate. Samir: [36:06] Taken like a. Jason: [36:08] A hundred percent ownership position in some of those like his are you investing primarily with the hope of getting a financial return is it to incubate companies where you didn't have an exclusive like what it what is. Samir: [36:18] Winning. Tim: [36:20] I think it's all the above I mean the intent really right now is to learn is the weather is against some of these new product spaces at Armor, or even capabilities so companies that do things particularly well that we want to learn more about, it's an interesting way to go do that is by becoming part of, owner of that company and then hopefully ingest that learning a 10in skillet across organization. Jason: [36:53] And are you finding that it's difficult, you know at a company with Good Financial rigor that used to sort of focusing on quarter-to-quarter results to think like a longer-term investor on some of the light you know BC's think about a very different pay back her eyes and. Samir: [37:04] I think like a longer-term investor on some of the Viking BC's think about a very different pay back her eyes and then you know I would come. Jason: [37:12] Companies that are trying to keep shareholders have. Tim: [37:14] Yeah I know it's right and it's so this company this group was purpose-built to pretty much avoid that so they've been given an investment, amount and how to ring-fence that amount and so they act very much like a VC company and then we're going to go, we're going to look for this portfolio of companies that either from a product or capability Sandpoint look interesting and then you diligence up through our leadership team with the recommendation. Jason: [37:45] Very cool. Samir: [37:46] Well we're at work. Jason: [37:47] Coming up against time I want to do one last question I know we're halfway through this show and I know. Samir: [37:51] We're halfway through the show and I know we don't have. Jason: [37:54] Navigation so I don't think anyone's got a chance to sort of absorb everything going on. Samir: [37:57] Everything going on in the show but. Jason: [37:59] Do I get there any trender theme or vendor that like has emerged in that you know that was interesting to you that you either came here looking for or maybe surprised you. Tim: [38:11] It's interesting for me that the conversations that happened seem to be where for me a lot of the value starts to come out a meeting with peers were having some more challenges and brainstorming together I think one of the biggest themes though, is wow this is happening really fast 2 years ago this wasn't a thing you know and so, that speed in Pace that's happened I think even our leadership at back at home and Company, don't necessarily appreciate it it's a part of you know what I have you as my job is still going to bring that urgency back with a bit of a game plan as well for what we need to be doing. Jason: [38:51] For sure. Could you imagine trying to talk more more senior leadership into coming. Samir: [38:53] Trying to talk more more senior leadership into coming to an event like. Tim: [38:56] I think that's a great idea you know again it's it's kind of palpable you walk the floor you see some of these speakers, you really do get a sense for the Earth the pace and urgency that's out there and so I think it's a great suggestion of bringing in some more high-profile execs and not just having them send their econ guy out to this conference. Samir: [39:17] I'm sure an ant as a me and in all your conversations anyting jump out of. Jason: [39:20] Jump out at you or surprised by the new data competitors or anything like that. Samir: [39:24] Got the data competitors are great I love seeing you did it competitors right and it's just it's it's great the more the better, the one thing that I've noticed and I've noticed since the last the last shop talk show in March I'm coming into this one is, it appears to me that the companies that, are sort of weathering the storm or taking the most advantage of this shift to online grocery are actually indeed those companies that have formed or in the process of forming Innovation teams are there in Seattle near Amazon, and the ones that have not are the ones that clearly in the data show up as kind of ligers, so you know kind of the advice is if you will if you are a grocer or a traditional brand, if you don't have some kind of innovation team together that has its own budget and actually has a seat at the table you're going to be in big trouble. Jason: [40:23] Very cool that is an interesting insight and that's going to be a great place to leave it because it's. Samir: [40:26] Because it happen again weave. Jason: [40:29] Used up all our a lot of time but before we go Sammy of those aren't real. Samir: [40:31] But before we go Sammy of those are intrigued by the rise of grocery report or just want to. Jason: [40:37] I just want to get in touch with you what's where do you hang out in the intern. Samir: [40:40] You can reach me on LinkedIn or on Twitter music to find them both of those places. Jason: [40:44] Links to both of those in the show notes and Tim. Samir: [40:48] Are you an active guy on LinkedIn can I. Tim: [40:52] Yeah that's fine. Jason: [40:53] Cool again again PlayStation Network with Tim and soul. Samir: [40:54] Tim and so you know thanks to both you guys for taking time out of their busy show to come speak with our listeners as all. Jason: [40:59] Busy show to come speak with our listeners as always listeners if you have any questions or you. Samir: [41:04] Want to follow up on any of the topic. Jason: [41:06] Play some the show you can join us on our Facebook page and leave a question. Samir: [41:10] As always if this was the. Jason: [41:11] Please if this was the the show that you know was finally worth it to you do with the big favor of jumping over to iTunes and getting us. Samir: [41:16] I'm getting us at 5. Jason: [41:19] And until next time happy commercing.